Reciprocating Pumps 1

[nclbrg]

Hello everybody,

I have very little experience in technical bid evaluation for reciprocating pumps.

I tried to arrange a tabulation sheet based on the requirements of API 674, but it's very difficult since there are a lot of parameters to be consider.

Based on your experience, could you help me?

Thanks in advance

Regards

 

[micalbrch]

Something like this?

 

[nclbrg]

Hi Micalbrch,

thank you very much for sending the API 674 data sheet.

It's the first time that I have to prepare the RFQ for purchasing of Reciprocating Pumps. I'll begin to fill in the pump data sheet.

In any case, what are the main parameters to be consider in order to assess properly the vendors' bids?

Thanks in advance

Regards

 

[DubMac]

Performance and Construction

 

[LittleInch]

First have they meet your process requirements, flow, pressure etc. Then how do they compare in the items the vendor chooses, motor size, materials etc. Then cost and delivery, spares.

My motto: Learn something new every day

Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way

 

[nclbrg]

Hi everybody,

please see here attacched a copy of tecnical bid evaluation that I usually submit with RFQ to vendors for purchasing of screw pump.

I'm trying to get the same for reciprocating pump.

What do you think about my way of working?

Thanks in advance for your cooperation

Regards

 

[SNORGY]

What you are doing is communicating to the bidder exactly how their proposal is going to be evaluated. You could even write into your RFQ document (to paraphrase): "Fill in all data, failure to do so may result in rejection of proposal."

It's a strategy I have used and I like the idea. The only thing I would say is that, if that is what you tell them you will be using as the basis for evaluation, then evaluate fairly on exactly that basis. Don't blindside them by evaluating them on stuff you haven't foreshadowed, because that's not fair.

 

[DubMac]

You should have something requesting more information about the liquid end of the pump. What bore, stroke size? Is it a piston or a plunger or a diaphragm reciprocating pump you want? Your coupling questions more suited for "inline rotating string"; you may want V-belt drive, or simply a Lovejoy type coupling with a recip. What are the materials and configuration of the valves and seats? Nothing about the speed reducer; you only ask for pump speed and not motor speed.

The best thing you can do is to use the API674 data sheet posted by "mcalbrch" above. If there are areas of the data sheet that are difficult for you, then either go learn about them or get someone else to do the evaluation. With all due respect, your evaluation sheet will be a disaster trying to differentiate between reciprocating pumps.

 

[micalbrch]

Keep in mind that a nice data sheet and an even nicer technical bid evaluation sheet are no substitutes for technical understanding. You must use these sheets as a help only. I looked at your screw pump sheet. Why are 2.1 material certificates necessary for all non-pressure parts? What do 2.1 certificates proof what you cannot find in the bid or in the order acknowledgement of the vendor? Why do you want them? Because you saw it somewhere in other bid evaluations? You must question every single item and decide whether or not it is important for this specific project you're working on. Otherwise such sheet are nothing but an alibi.

 

[nclbrg]

Hi guys,

there is a misunderstanding.

I usually submit to the supplier the following documents:
- the supply specification with the attachements, including the API data sheet filled in, painting spec's, etc.
- the material requisition

The problem is that the most of pump suppliers don't give me back the data sheet filled in along with the BID, so I have to ask them to provide all data necessary for technical evaluation.

They usually reply me that they will fill in the data sheet only after purchase order, so I have thought to submit them the technical bid evaluation form in order to have the main characteristic from the pump suppliers.

If I understand correctly, the best way it's to oblige the supplier to fill in the pump data sheet with relevant data.

I'm sorry to trouble you but I'm a new graduate and I'm learning.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.

 

[DubMac]

Are you kidding? Pump suppliers trying to sell a pump will not fill out an API data sheet? Tell them to hit the road; if they cannot, or will not fill out at least the API data sheets, I would never deal with them.

Of course, not every line in every API 674 data sheet is meaningful for EVERY reciprocating pump. But it is not tough for a supplier to note "Not/Applicable" on that line, and be ready to explain the ommission to you.

Are you actually dealing with the Pump manufacturer, or a distributor/representative of the manufacturer?? I cannot imagine a reputable manufacturer not jumping at the chance to fill out the data sheets at least. If you are dealing with a distributor or a rep, call the manufacturer and tell them what's happening.

Do not consider buying one of these pumps before seeing it's performance data. And the API data sheet will have 95% of the data you need to purchase.

 

[BigInch]

Inform them that incomplete data sheets will divert the tender to the recycle bin.

Independent events are seldomly independent.

 

[micalbrch]

I cannot imagine a reputable manufacturer not jumping at the chance to fill out the data sheets at least.

Beleive me, DubMac, if you do that work a few times for the same (possible) client, especially if he is not the end user, and you never got a PO, you'll question if all that preliminary work makes sense.

 

[nclbrg]

Hello guys,

in my little experience, I can confirm that in the bid stage it's difficult to have all the information from suppliers, since they are not confident to take the Purchase Order, while after P.O. they give all the information requested.

I noted that they usually limit themselves to give the basic information according to their standard procedure.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.

Regards

 

[hitchhiker]

Why don't you arrange a pre-bid meeting with all potential suppliers? In that meeting you can highlight what are the requirements, what's not and what disqualification factor would be applied for particular tender. At the end of the meeting, you would come up with MOM that have a legal binding to all (ensure procurement team/committee also attend the meeting, if there are such on your case). After that, depending on the time frame stated on the meeting, they will submit the technical bids (should they chose to enter), with all (most) of your requirement (otherwise will be disqualified).

Well, that's what I did here. One of a requirement on gov't regulation on procurement and tender, so we can't run away. But it does make all the suppliers comply to your requirement/wish.

 

[DubMac]

I wanna know what part of the world you live in and come there and start selling pumps. Man, I've been wasting my time the past many decades filling out the data sheets first. What a beautiful world it must be to tell the customer what he has bought after you cash his check.

 

[nclbrg]

@ DubMac

you're absolutely right and I agree with you. For your info I work in Italy and the most of suppliers are Italian, I have noted that the other suppliers (like american, english) are more precise.

@ hitchhiker

The only way it's to arrange a pre-bid meeting, but many times it's difficult to find time since I'm very busy and it's difficult to follow a lot of equipments

Thank you very much and sorry for my english

 

[micalbrch]

What a beautiful world it must be to tell the customer what he has bought after you cash his check.

DubMac: The world was Europe (too). But we never cashed the check after PO but after shipment. Advanced payment is not common here. But my salary had to be paid by someboby. You know how long it takes to fill data sheets and how stupid some requirements are, especially if a standard data sheet is sent which has nothing to do with the content of the inquiry. Why did somebody need to know what brand our crankshaft bearings were? If that was important (perhaps because the client prefered a special brand), they should mention it in the inquiry. Then is is an important criteria. Otherwise I had to submit design details for nothing. I must tell you that I was talking about bids to OEMs, distributors etc. - no about bids to end users because with them I could talk.

The only way it's to arrange a pre-bid meeting, but many times it's difficult to find time since I'm very busy and it's difficult to follow a lot of equipments

nclbrg: Yes, and because you do not find the time the vendors should spend more time with uncertain result of their work. That's what I meant. Don't take it personally!

 

[BigInch]

"Why did somebody need to know what brand our crankshaft bearings were?"
If a client tells a vendor which MFGR's bearings to use, the vendor is more likely to charge extra for a custom bearing order. If he asks and you just happen to supply one of his approved MFGR's bearings, he guts it for no extra charge.

Independent events are seldomly independent.

 

[micalbrch]

Exactly, BigInch! But he shall tell me that and not send me a blank sheet that I must fill and then tell me later what he wants. That's what I meant. But don't let us start a new topic in this thread and I apologize if I did (what is probably the case).