Relay testers 4

[unclebob]

Hi all.

We're currently looking for a relay tester. We're trying to
find one with a database containing lots a relay types and easy to set up.

Right now, we have a Pulsar. But without the software to run it, it is somewhat difficult to set up...

Last Friday, we met a sales rep from Megger. People here
are not too happy with the presentation we've had for
the MPRT.

Anyway, Omicron, Doble and Manta are the next possible choices. Any comments or suggestion?

We are a service company and we're going to test more and
more generator protection relays. We looking for the right
equipment.

Thanks

 

[dbaird]

Go to this website for testing info etc.

http://home.att.net/~john.horak/

David Baird

Sr Controls Designer
EET degree.
Journeyman Electrician.

 

[Milliamp]

You might also try this site:

http://www.enoserv.com/index.php

 

[apprenticerelaytech]

We just recently (in the past year) bought a couple Omicron test sets and everybody loves them. We had been using the Doble 2000 series test sets and have found the Omicron to be a great upgrade. As Milliamp suggested Enoserv supplies a great program for testing relays. We have it for both the Doble and Omicron and it works great with both test sets.

 

[DanDel]

My relay guy swears by the Doble 5160 with the Enoserve RTS software. My understanding is that ProTest sfotware is good, also.

 

[subtech]

Where I am currently employed, Enoserv's testing software has been used for several years now. I can say without hesitation that their software is great, the service and support is even better. You won't deal with more friendly and relay savvy people. I've tried to use Protest and while I wouldn't say it's bad, I definately like Enoserv's RTS better. Where I work, we've recently upgraded to a premium version of RTS that let's use develop our own testing routines. It isn't difficult to do, and you can build just about whatever routine you like and test a relay immediately. I highly recommend RTS. I have seen RTS used with Doble and Manta test sets and it works very well with either.

 

[GermanPat]

Two years ago we bought a relay test equipment from Kocos. My colleagues and me are very happy with it. We are a small service group located in Germany and we do all kind of tests on different types of relays. I do not have experiences with the Doble or Megger devices because they are not very common here in Germany. Here we only have two main suppliers of relay test devices, Omicron and Kocos. So we had the choise between these two parties. We got a demo from both of them and we finally went for the Kocos.
Maybe this company is an alternative for you. For us it is.

 

[mikey70]

Check the Manta 5000. Only new set on the market that can run from the front panel. Designed by a relay tester, not some software geek who never saw a relay. Doble and Omicron very good test sets as well. I like RTS for software.

 

[PapaMike]

Hello,

I am working for a service group in finland. Three years ago we have been infront of the same decision. After a look on the Doble, KoCoS and Omicron we've decided for an ARTES 440 II.
Main sticking points for us were the good support, the options of the device and the price (as always).

 

[PhilGavin]

In terms of hardware, I'd be looking for 6 current sources, (the higher the compliance voltage the better) and minimum of four voltages.
Binary inputs should double as oscillographic measuring channels.

In this regard I believe the Doble F6150 pips the CMC 256-6.

However with regards to software, the Omicron test universe Ver.2 is streets ahead of Pro-test.

Omicron seems to maintain an innovative position one step ahead of the rest.

I do not know another test set that can import all electronic settings from any IED, manipulate these settings to test parameters and automatically populate test plans on an equal with the Omicron.
I believe GE Programma have are aiming for this too.

I am not familiar with the RTS package.

However, you may want to consider these guys.
They are new kids on the block that have an interesting market offering as a open test kit solution.

http://www.ips-energy.com/en/

They claim to be able to represent any relay information in an importable IEC 61850 format. This manipulation is performed automatically for electronic settings.
By all account it covers all the database angles covered by RTS too.

In the near future all test kit manufacturers will have to make their test kits fluent in the IEC 61850 protocol, as this will be a require to converse with the majority of modern relays.

 

[DTR2011]

I have used Doble, Megger (AVO), Manta, Programma and Omicron at various service companies over the past years. What impressed me most was that in the Omicron demo, the guy picked up the test set and dropped it on the table before doing the demo.

The Manta I used was state of the art at the time (10 yrs ago). Havent used the new one.

Our Pulsar spent a lot of time in the repair shop, or being dropped in order to get it to work.

Programma does not have the power for US 5 amp relays.

On the Software side, Omicron is clearly the best. In the service world, one does not get paid until the report is submitted. The ability to make a nice report automatically and quickly is a clear plus. Omicron does a nice job. Protest is very poor at this, as is Manta and Programma.

Some people quip about computer controlled or not. Perhaps if all relays were mechanical that would be a rational response, but in my experience, one would be a fool in trying to test a SEL, Basler, ABB, or GE without talking to the relay during the test. Then of course there is the documentation.

Some utilities have minimal documentation, such as relay test cards. Not in the private world.

I like to have the ability to modify the test plans easily. Multifunction relays can be 1-100 different functions.

 

[oldfieldguy]

smallgreek--

You're pointing to a real problem among field engineers for service companies. We had to test a wide variety of relays. Working for several clients, we'd find one who was a Schweitzer fan, another who'd bought GE Multilin, a third who liked Basler.

Software just to communicate with the devices was a problem, as was manuals. Manuals on CD definitely help this problem.

But it is really an exercise to have to look at each application of a multifunction relay and decide which functions to test and how to test them.

old field guy

 

[DTR2011]

old field guy


I agree. It was bad enough in the past to have to carry along several milk crates filled with the IBs for just the GE & West Relays. At least there were certain things that could be memorized such as 1,10, 7,8 on a CO.

A SEL, GE or Basler manual are often 2-300 pgs long. Many of the new manuals do not even give testing procedures. Keeping up on the SW for all these relays. Being able to buy a laptop computer with an RS-232 serial port.

Worst part is that many people are straying away from some kind of test switch at all on the digital relays, or if they do have them, the voltages are in the wrong place, etc. And drawings, settings.....

I guess the good thing is that with the proliferation of new relays, there still remains a demand for qualified relay people after all.

Good luck.

 

[521AB]

According to my personal experience:

Omicron (

http://www.omicron.com)

CMC256-6 is ready for IEC61850.
They have ethernet port, they can trip by GOOSE messages instead of binary inputs, they are able to import SCD files etc.
They have the new XRIO concept to draw characteristics for a lot of relays (without need to import the RIO files, characteristic is generated by the XRIO itself). They can test in primary or secondary quantities.
Software is easy to use (you do need some practice).
Performances are more than enough for testing numerical relays.
Very good Comtrade Viewer.

ISA (

http://www.isatest.com)

DRTS-6: no ethernet port (yet?). Only RS232 or USB.
Some parts of the software are very good and easy to use.
Very good export of test data, in Microsoft DataBase format. Easy to elaborate them with Excel.
Possibility to test in primary and/or secondary quantities.
Similar concept to Omicron XRIO: a library of functions that draw relay characteristics (mainly distance protection) for the different relays.
Sometimes tricky software (sequences), but usually well running and easy to use (easier than Omicron).

Doble (

http://www.doble.com).

Software was not easy to use, now it is better but still it looks like glued on the old software. Anyway much better than before. In my opinion much less user friendly then Omicron and/or ISA.
They do have ethernet interface, not ready for IEC61850 but as far as I know they will come soon with it.
Hardware is superior to the other 2, but you appreciate it only while testing elechtromechanical relays. For numerical relays there is no clear advantage.

General Electric - Programma (Freja 300). (

http://www.ge.com/de/downloads/FREJA_300_English.pdf)

When (or if) are 6 current generators coming?
Still RS232 port?
What about ethernet interface?
Software is very easy to use but the performances are also limited. Quite slow in testing distance protections.

 

[DTR2011]

Beware of one thing when expecting a database of relays.

For the old electromechanical relays you can find such databases. For a digital relay, there are so many available settings that even if the relay is in the data base, the functions that you need to test may not be part of the test template.

I would advise that the testing SW be flexible and have test modules that are dedicated for the protection type you are testing (overcurrent, diff, distance, etc).

By the way, Doble does not support analog input for osc. viewing.

 

[SHR1969]

Sorry to hear about your disappointing review of the MPRT from Megger. I do not know what you got to see, but the MPRT comes with the AVTS V2.0 software. The software includes test files for about 57 different relays by 5 different relay manufacturers. Most of those test files are for electromechanical relays, like CO's, IAC's, BDD, etc. There are are several microprocessor based relays from ABB and SEL, and a half dozen solid-state relays from Basler that are included. More importantly, if you are a registered AVTS user on the extended support you have access to the Megger website AVTS users forum. There you will find additional test files for about 90 other relays, including numerous microrprocessor based relays like the SEL-311, SEL-501 just to name a couple. Many have been posted by the AVTS users, and others have been posted by several of the Megger Applications Engineers.

 

[thebqe]

I'm a relay engineer in the corporate office and we use the Omicron 256-6 to "sanity check" our settings for mostly microprocessor relays before sending them to the sites. One site uses Pulsar and had difficulty confirming our tests. As others have mentioned, the Omi has prebuilt xrio test files available for many relays. I used one of these to verify performance of a Siemens transformer diff relay and it produced a beautiful report with user friendly output showing "Pass" (and "Fails") on earlier tries. That site is pushing to get Omicrons. They have so many software tools on their Omicron Universe software

 

[00123456]

Kamin Dave (Electrical)
I am Relay Engineer & i have used OMICRON CMC256-6, FREJA300 & DOBLE F6150. I have analyze some points as listed below;
1) CMC256-6 is very good to test for Static, numerical & digital relays not for whole scheme.
2) F6150 is very to test for electromechanical, static & numerical relays & schemes.
3) FREJA300 is quite good to test only for numerical relays.
4) Omicron Test universe software is much more better than Doble F6TEST software & FREJAWIN software is nuch more easier than Test Universe software.
5) Front Panel control is only available in FREJA300.
6) FREJA300 is semi-automatic relay testing kit. CMC256-6 & F6150 are used as fully automatic relay testing instrument.
7) Graphical lookout of ProTesT software is not very good but, it is more flexible & fast than others.
8) Application of ProTesT software is very useful for generator protections as well as motor protection relays because we can able to program & calculate somany parameters in software.

 

[00123456]

Hi Kamin Dave
I am contd. with above points;

9) Relay testing is very easy with CMC256-6 & F6150 because Omicron is providing RIO files library with TESTUNIVERSE SOFTWARE for testing of various relays & Doble is also providing very good relay library with F6TEST & PROTEST SOFTWARES including RIO IMPORT facility. But, it is very difficult to test some special characteristics with FREJA300. FRAJAWIN SOFTWARE is also having RIO IMPORT facility, but characteristic creation is difficult than F6TEST & TESTUNIVERSE.
10) IEC61850 feature is available in F6150 & CMC256-6, but it is not in FREJA300.
11) Some of the special features like CT saturation waveform for differential relay testing, Power system model for dynamic testing, Power swing creation (Asynchronous method & DZ/DT Method), Inrush gap creation for static differential relay testing etc. available in softwatre & it is possible to Create & test with F6150 & CMC256-6 but, these features are not available in FREJAWIN software.
12) Finally, my conclusion is; harware wise F6150 is much more better than CMC256-6 & FREJA300, but there is no doubt; TESTUNIVERSE SOFTWARE is more better than DOBLE F6TEST SOFTWARE. CMC256-6 is having maximum 4-voltages & 6-currents channels & F6150 is having maximum either 6-voltages & 6-currents or 12-currents channels.

 

[avtpvt]

DOBLE instrument is OK for electromechanical & static relay testing but, it's not clear advantage for modern multifuction numerical relays. Omicron software is so good.