Report a Client for Fraud? 23

[casseopeia]

I have a Client (Developer) who used whiteout and pencil to significantly alter a printout of a detail design that I had issued. It was then scanned and issued to the Contractor in electronic format with my firm's letterhead and my initials still intact, as if it had come from us. I was not notified of the change until I happened to stop by the project site to get some unrelated information and saw what they were constructing. I asked the Superintendent why he was not following what I drew and he said it was what I issued. That's how I discovered the change. The Superintendent was disturbed by the unauthorized revisions and said that he had a similar experience with the HVAC consultant just the day before. The Client had taken whole sections of the mechanical specifications, changed the equipment, typed up the changes, and literally cut and pasted the paper right into the Project Manual without the knowledge of the Designer.

I find this behavior shocking. The Client is certainly free to ignore his Consultant's recommendations, but to change the Consultant's work product and issue under the stamp of another licensed professional seems like it would rise to the level of fraud, punishable by the loss of a business license. If this were my own company, I would have dumped this Client a long time ago when he started in making sweeping changes in my investigation report, but my boss decided to continue the work. Just looking for opinions.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[SWmechE]

Another vote for following Ron's advice. Who knows what other details that your name is attached too they may have previously changed, you are legally and morally obligated to bring this up and put as much distance between the client, your current employer and yourself as possible.

If some years down the road the condos suffer some serious failures NOT related to your work this large flag could potenially help the owners/tenents show legal willfull negligence and could protect other engineers/architects that had their work changed without their knowing. Do it for them even if your company will take your name off the records, which I doubt they would from the sounds of it.

This sounds like the silver plater opportunity you needed to escape your current employer with a good record to present to worth-while future employers. Take this gift and run.

 

[jmw]

It is a curious thing but it is when things go wrong that we learn the most, we learn who we can depend on, who we can't and who are the unknowns.

Take two companies, each supplying equivalent product.
One company has never had a serious problem and the other has.
Of the two companies which has the best chance of a new contract?

Sooner or later no matter who or what, the chances are that a serious problem may arise. When things go wrong it costs money, not just the failure itself but the down time and consequential losses.

So if we expect failure some time, the company with no failures is an unknown quantity; that they have had no failures is no guarantee that they will not at some time in the future have a problem. But without having had problem, no one knows how they will perform if they do.

The other is a known. They have had a problem and their response has been experienced.

It is a curious thing that companies that respond well to problems can actually earn a greater respect and recognition than those that have had no problems and paradoxically, it can work to their advantage.

On the other hand, if they performed badly - went into denial, dragged their feet and played the blame game......

So if this company is prepared to cheat, falsify drawings and defraud its suppliers and its clients, and if your company is prepared to collude in this activity, and if it comes out, as there is every chance it will, even before there is a failure or obvious sign of poor performance, because too many people already know about the falsification of drawings, what is their future and anyone associated with that failure?

This applies as much to people as it does to companies.
Some may come out of this as known quantities.
Good or bad, is up to them.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[pennswoodsed]

Dear Cass,
May I amplify my previous advice , I would recommend a. See the district attorney b.change jobs,maybe city c. this is not your first indication that your swimming in a cess pool .
Get out while you have something to save (reputation)
Regards,Ed

 

[josephv]

Hello cass,

I completely agree with JMW.

"You need some professional/legal advise.(a) on the altered drawings as one separate issue(b) on everything else in general."

best wishes,

 

[jmw]

Cass, you've gone quiet......?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[IRstuff]

She's busy with her hydraulic scale, I think.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[controlnovice]

It's like waiting for one's favorite TV show to start back up after last season's cliffhanger....

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[moon161]

It does make me think of LA Law for engineers.

 

[casseopeia]

I've gone quiet because it's so bad, I don't want to say anything for fear that you will think I have lost my mind.

The Client asked that my company produce a letter stating that they (the Client and their Contractor) have completed all of our recommendations from my initial investigation report. And for this complete fabrication, they are willing to pay less than half of our fees to date. Of course I am expected to write sign the thing. To make matters worse, the letter is to be presented to a former Client of mine looking to purchase the building.

Anyone I have worked for in the past would have countered such a request with, "FU, strong letter from my attorney to follow." But my boss thinks I'm 'being difficult' and does not want to 'make a difficult decision.'

Yesterday I made a spreadsheet that showed all of the items from my report, which ones were repaired per my details and specifications, and which ones were repaired by the Contractor and are generally acceptable. Less than 25% of the items met those criteria. I showed it to my boss and said our Client is asking too much and doing too little for it.

The boss hasn't asked for the letter again...yet.

As it stands at the moment, I have avoided writinging the letter by keeping busy with another project (no, not the hydraulic scale).

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[jmw]

Cass, Cass, this is getting worse and worse by the minute.
And I don't see your boss giving you anything in writing.....

How much more evidence do you need that these guys, your boss included, are bottom feeders?
Who are you protecting here because it isn't you?
I'm worried they are going to drag you way down in the mud and leave you carrying the can.
They will black your reputation with just about everyone including former clients....

You need to get that legal advise.

At least do that.

But the way things are going, you don't have time to be messing around with anything else.
Forget the weigh scales.
Forget anything else.
This has to be your number one priority.
(And while you are getting that legal advice, ask do they have a witness protection scheme for engineers?)




JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[patprimmer]

The next difficult decision I can see as this progresses is he will hand you a balaclava and a shotgun and drive you to the bank and ask you to go in and make a large withdrawal and bring it out to him.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[hokie66]

The client is a forger and is intending to commit fraud. Your boss is condoning both. Not much future here.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

For the immediate future, I would be more concerned about the damage done to your reputation if/when people find out you were aware of an intent to commit fraud and did not immediately act upon it.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[fade2blue]

Why are invertebrates promoted to management?

 

[lacajun]

Being an adult is tough, isn't it? I'm sure you know that but your boss certainly doesn't.

Fraud is a serious thing. I've got some attorney friends, who pointed out how serious it is.

Reputations are hard to build and easy to destroy. I know you'll do the right thing but you're going to suffer in the process. Wish I could make it better for you but that's impossible. I will pray for you.

 

[jmw]

You have to wonder what other corners these guys are cutting, and have cut - including your boss.
And what they get away with now is nothing to where they are going.

A sort of mission creep will take over and what even they might consider a step too far, at the beginning, is nothing to what they will one day get up to as their values change and they find new ways to justify themselves.

The client is probably dreaming of the day he can build dam or a high rise in an earthquake zone. Just how much cement can they leave out before they have reached the safety margins?
And when do they tell themselves the safety margins are too conservative anyway? Get enough county contracts and they'll soon be into politics.

Of course, the way they are carrying on, they aren't exactly hiding what they are doing and they don't seem to be doing it very well either. This is the sort of mentality that usually guarantees they'll get caught and that it will be messy.

If these guys were robbing a bank, as Pat suggests, you would shop them and you wouldn't get involved. These are the types who'll drop their ID during the robbery or do something real dumb.
Theirs is a dangerous route of telling themselves "everyone does it", "it ain't serious", "it isn't dangerous" "that's what the safety margins are for", "no one will get hurt", and "No one will get caught".
They think they are real clever and everyone else is dumb.

And it escalates.

Al Capone presumably started stealing from his mums purse.
Al Gore probably started out telling little lies to his mum.

But where will they stop? How deep will they drag you into all this mess?

It staggers me that they could be so brazen about what they are doing and wanting/expecting you to simply go along with it all as if asking you to participate in a crime was a natural thing to do.

I am even more astounded that your dumb boss is going along with all this because he is putting his company's rep on the line and for what?

Either he is a complete chump and I'm going to start my own 419 email scam, if you'll just give me his email address please, or he is making a raft of money somewhere and he is hiding it well. i.e. there is more you don't know.

People who adopt a flexible attitude to the law in one area soon find it is just as easy to disregard a few other laws and regulations, especially when money is involved.
Chances are that they are also skimping on their taxes, (that really is the best of the "victimless crimes" to these people) if they can get away with it.
Let's face it, if what they are doing is crooked, then they have to be hiding some money somewhere along the line, and tax returns and accounts are probably easier to fudge than drawings. (There might be a reward from the IRS......when you drop the dime on the building frauds, drop another to Uncle Sam).



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[lacajun]

jmw, my impression is that this is normal operations for them. What is abnormal for them are cass's ethical behavior and reason.

 

[moltenmetal]

Cass: are you toying with us? Is this a soap opera made up for our entertainment?

I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like you've got paper evidence of your employer counselling you to aid in a fraud. On top of that, as if you needed anything further, you've got a very strong case against them for functional dismissal.

Stop typing and push the "eject" button.

 

[casseopeia]

If only I were to wake up and find out that it's all been just a bad dream. Nope, not toying with you. If anything, I've down-played or just not mentioned some of the worst stuff. Just to clear up one thing, though, there is no imminent structural danger. My work has been for the purpose of identifying and solving extensive leaking on a development that was abandoned by the original builder. The worst that any of my own work can do is not prevent enough water from getting into the structural podium where it can corrode the steel tendons. My goal is for that to happen long after I am wearing a diaper and drooling on myself in a nursing home somewhere.

Making things more complicated, though, are a number of factors such as the location in a harsh marine environment, significant changes made by the original builder, and having nearly every component of the building turn out to be an unauthorized Chinese knock-off that came over by container ship, right down to the nuts and washers. The General Contractor joked that the concrete would have come over by container if they could have added enough sugar to it to keep it from setting up.

Solutions for some of the problems are extremely difficult and results never ideal. There is a very wide range of gray where I must find an acceptable solution that meets strict financial and scheduling parameters. The good news it that I like the GC who seems genuinely concerned about fixing the problems. The superintendent has said a number of times that if I tell him he has to do something, he will do it. So I've got my own ways of fighting back. If I can't force it from the top down, I'll scrap and claw my way from the bottom up by inducing a mutiny. Hopefully I will get somewhere in the middle and still have a job. I also have another tool in my pocket. Video files from the failed water tests that I took were too large to email the out-of-town client, so I sent them links to YouTube posts. <evil grin>


"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[moon161]

"Video files from the failed water tests that I took were too large to email the out-of-town client, so I sent them links to YouTube posts. <evil grin>"

This is the sort of connect the dots datum that I'd worry about posting here.