Retirement ages for engineers 8

[geotechguy1]

In your experience, at what age do engineers in these professions retire? Do you find engineers start getting forced out / laid off at 50-55? If that happens, has it been easy to get a new job?

Asking because I had always planned to aim for FIRE at 45 because I hated the first 5 years of my career but it's gradually getting better and 10 years in I actually enjoy my profession and reckon I might want to work until 60 or 65 if my brain holds up but I have heard mixed things about late career engineering

 

[cranky108]

The newbees seem to think some of the old knowledge is a will never happen thing, and gets dismissed.
Who need black start tools.

 

[geotechguy1]

Getting newbies to listen should be a PDH course for engineers, and being able to listen should be one for newbies.

 

[CWB1]

But I thought everybody in the civil realm became a certified expert at everything after four years? Most of the elders I've known in that industry were "regulatory consultants" paid to push projects past their buddies in the local AHJ.

 

[Aesur]

Getting newbies to listen should be a PDH course for engineers, and being able to listen should be one for newbies.

I 100% agree, although I would make it part of undergrad; far too often I see old engineers struggling to teach newbies because they lack the patience of teaching the basics again, and dealing with newbies who refuse to take notes. When teaching a newer engineer something and I see that they aren't taking notes I stop teaching and make it a point to tell them to get a pen and paper and that I expect them to take notes; I learned to be more direct with this after having to teach the same thing over and over because they weren't paying attention and/or playing on their phones. A few times I have got the opportunity to train engineers who really cared and asked great questions and question how you teach them, they are the real standouts and the ones who will go far in this field and make training enjoyable again, unfortunately these types are few and far between.

But I thought everybody in the civil realm became a certified expert at everything after four years? Most of the elders I've known in that industry were "regulatory consultants" paid to push projects past their buddies in the local AHJ.

You are close to correct, the "real engineers" who stick with the civil field tend to focus on one area ie Civil, Geotechnical, Environmental, Structural, etc.., the ones who come out thinking they know everything either become project managers who rarely seek licensing (contractors don't want licensed engineers running a project as it increases their potential liability) or they work for the government pushing paper. The older ones who specialize get quite good at getting projects through the AHJ because they know what to look for, but only do so in their specialized areas.

The newbees seem to think some of the old knowledge is a will never happen thing, and gets dismissed.

This is mostly not just their thinking but a reality. I have many thoughts on this, one being fees aren't high enough to cover training and companies are more and more being run by non-technical people which push profits over quality and training. Many new engineers can't make it in the field because they don't really care and aren't sure which area they want to focus on. Older engineers get tired of training over and over because companies don't always value employees forcing them to jump around a good bit. Older engineers get tired of training because they have trained many who didn't stick with the field as they weren't capable of handling the stress and workloads or they just didn't care and wanted to just use software without really understanding the designs.

That partly arises because engineers DON'T retire earlier; why would you seek out a newb if you can get a graybeard, right?

This is especially true given project fees, timelines, and expected salaries. You can only get so much fee for a project which is many times due to so many one man greybeard engineer shops driving the fees down and the larger companies outsourcing to other countries. Because of this the salary ranges for many companies in my area of expertise are not what engineers come out of school expecting. You can hire an experienced engineer knowing they will cover their cost and produce a profit, or you can hire a new grad knowing you will lose money on them for at least a year. Take company size into account and it's hard for smaller companies to hire new engineers as the few (maybe even just one) experienced engineers you have will have to work harder to train and produce the profit needed to cover the new engineer. Then consider the amount of engineers who leave the field in the first few years and it's discouraging to hire new grads.

 

[geotechguy1]

>But I thought everybody in the civil realm became a certified expert at everything after four years? Most of the elders I've known in that industry were "regulatory consultants" paid to push projects past their buddies in the local AHJ.

Overconfident P.E's thinking they know everything as soon as they gain licensure is certainly a problem, especially at smaller companies that advertise themselves as being able to do everything but don't necessarily have much specialist expertise. Unfortunately many disciplines of civil engineering are now so hilariously over-conservative in everything that they do that its possible to stumble through a 40 year career and not understand anything about anything. I'm not sure how the American system works precisely but in the Canadian system having a P.Eng isn't the be all and end all. Work must still be reviewed by senior / specialist expert engineers, and quality programs must be left in place. The industry self regulates which unfortunately means egos can get out of hand if they aren't checked by the disciplinary process and by rigorous vetting of P.Eng applicants for attitude.

On thinking about it, getting a P.Eng license in Canada largely depends on having three referees who have reviewed your work 'sign off' so to speak on your licensure. If someone asked me to do it now the #1 thing I would be looking for is there attitude, humbleness, willing to admit what they don't know, etc.

 

[phamENG]

geotechguy1 - it's about the same here in the US, but there's only a few states that require the senior/specialist sign off and that's usually only for critical or very large structures. For instance, I can't get an SE license in California (yet), but I can get a PE Civil license and practice small scale structural engineering - houses, small shopping centers, etc. In my home state, I can "do" everything. I know I have limits, so I'm not going to start doing high rises or post-tensioning or other things that I don't have any experience with. But the only thing stopping me is my ethical obligation to not practice outside of my realm of experience and knowledge.

As a wise man once said of experience:

"If you need it, you don’t have it. If you have it, you need more of it. If you have more of it, you don’t need less of it. You need it to get it. And you certainly need it to get more of it. But if you don’t already have any of it to begin with, you can’t get any of it to get started, which means you really have no idea how to get it in the first place, do you? You can share it, sure. You can even stockpile it if you like. But you can’t fake it. Wanting it. Needing it. Wishing for it. The point is… if you’ve never had any of it… ever… people just seem to know.”

 

[IRstuff]

Sounds like Elizabeth Holmes didn't follow that, given her "Fake it until you Make it" approach.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[dik]

awful verbose for a 'wise guy'. I'm sure glad I'm not starting out now.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

Keep up the good work...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[cranky108]

I did consider becoming an auditor, because I know where the bodies could be hidden in the documentation. I am sure I can catch several newbies/wiseguys, trying to fake it.

But, I never wanted to go to the dark side of management, so I say no to the darker side of auditing requirements.

 

[phamENG]

dik - "wise man" was a bit tongue in cheek...that's a marketing gimmick from Old Spice from around 2010.

IRstuff - yeah, but she got caught, so really that proves the "adage" - no?

 

[IRstuff]

Yes, she did, in a spectacular way.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

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[horacio Torres]

There is not a retirement age.. Is a mental limit

Horacio

https://www.linkedin.com/company/lagotuy/

 

[dik]

Thanks... not aware of it.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik