Retraining to be an Electrician 16

[LaplacianPyramid]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some advice about moving away from a career in engineering and to a profession with more demand for new workers.

I graduated with a master's degree in electrical engineering last year and have been unable to find an electrical engineering job after nearly six months of searching. I've applied for jobs all over the U.S. with small companies, large companies, and the government. Most of the open jobs I've found either require or strongly prefer several years of experience. There just doesn't seem to be much out there for newly minted engineers, and with unemployment the way it is, I think there are too many experienced engineers looking for a job for me to have a shot.

With my engineering career prospects so bleak, I'm considering going back to school to become an electrician. Job openings for electricians seem to be abundant, and I think becoming an electrician should be a quick and easy transition with my background in electrical engineering. I know I won't make as much money as an electrician, but it's better than spending the next year unsuccessfully looking for an engineering job while waiting tables.

Has anyone else here transitioned away from engineering to a new career? If so, were you happy with your decision? Did the transition go as well as you hoped?

Thanks!

 

[Twoballcane]

“It turns out I was just a big schmuck all along. Engineering degrees are the new liberal arts degrees.”

Sorry LaplacianPyramid, welcome to the real world. You sound like you’re from the “entitled generation”. In this economy everybody is struggling and yet you feel just because you graduated you are entitled to respect and a job. If you are coming across like this with your personality, resume and interview, you will not be taken seriously. My company looks for enthusiastic people not people who think just because they have the degree demand to have the respect and a job. If you do not have the passion for engineering, switch fields all together. Let me give you hint. Even when you do get hired, nobody in the company will manage your career. Just because your part of the company, it does not mean you’re entitled to raises and promotions. You still have to prove yourself. You think getting the job is the hard part, it is not. Keeping the job and managing your career will even be tougher.

Your entitlement will show thru and will get you into trouble. Respect is earned, not given. To get respect is to be born out or fire, not spoon fed.



Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[Twoballcane]

“My fancy diploma doesn't mean a thing.”

It seems you are new to this board. Please reframe from making remarks like this. Most of everybody on this board has that “fancy degree”. There is no need to come on to this board of working Engineers and insult the people who worked hard to get that degree and made something out of it. I worked hard to get mine and I have never thought of it as a waste of time.


Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[ctopher]

Twoballcane,
I agree.
It doesn't mean a thing to those that are not seriously looking for work.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[plasgears]

I made two temp changes from engineering along the way, but I went back when things opened up.
1. I dropped back to my flight instructor avocation. Enjoyed it but didn't make living wages.
2. With a foundation in Toastmasters, I got a job on a tech magazine, which I enjoyed until the magazine was sold.

A concurrent avocation was landscape design. It was seasonal during warm weather. Did that on and of for many years. My son picked up on it, and he does high ticket jobs as opportunity allows.

Don't drop engineering. Use your analytical and space visualization skills in other areas.

 

[tygerdawg]

I know part of it is my fault.

Probably MOST of it.

I did a search on Indeed.com for "MSEE" and got 4,000+ responses. There're plenty of jobs out there. Where do you want to go, what do you want to do? What are you WILLING to do in order to get employed? THAT's the question because the ugly truth is no one owes you a living, no matter what your qualifications are. In this economy, the Candidate-BS-tolerance threshold is probably extremely low.

Some possible issues to consider and ask yourself honestly:
(1) "hear nothing back from 95%..." How do you contact employers? Via job boards and internet, flipping 'em an electronic resume? If so, then change your game. THAT strategy has been discussed much here (do some searches, there are great stories), and it is problematic. IMHO it's a terrible method with a high failure rate.

(2) Had any face-to-face interviews? And still been rejected? If so, then why? I mean, really why? It's all about selling yourself.

(3) Sitting around, sending out e-resumes waiting for the world to beat a path to your door because you got a Master's degree? Wrong strategy...a Master's degree is a liability in a lot of situations. The Master's pay is assumed to be higher, the available jobs for them are fewer, and you must hustle a lot harder to find them. Get out and circulate, volunteer, go throw boxes at the local FedEx hub at 400AM, attend engineering society meetings, network. It may help you realize that the employment game is all about hustling for what you want.

You think you're frustrated NOW...huh. Wait until you get out and start dealing with Master's-discrimination, corporate lunacy, and backstabbing co-workers who feel threatened by the new self-righteous, chip-on-shoulder College Boy.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[IRstuff]

" I didn't even try to get into an Ivy League school, or at least a well-respected engineering school."

That's a pretty sad attitude. There are tons of engineering grads doing quite well, even those from polytechnic state universities.

If this is the attitude with which you are approaching your job search, then it's not surprising that you're foundering. If you're going into an endeavor thinking you're going to fail, then life is not going to let you down.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[HVACJACK]

It's more in your head than you realize.

I can make excuses all day long as to why some particular thing hasn't gone my way, or why I cant make as much $ as someone else. MIT is not good and you probably wouldn't have got in there anyway - really even if we all had the $40k/year to go there- how many people on this board believe they would have got in and that it would have given them a legitimate leg up.

There are no more tests, no more books, no more homework, no more dry lectures that you felt you should get $100 for being the only one not to fall asleep, as another poster put it- you hit the real world, there is no back of the book to check for a "right answer" no free academic advisor... there is life- and either you make it or you don't. People tell you no, well go on to to the next guy or better yet- his competitor and make them sorry he didn't hire you.

Maybe thats the wrong approach, maybe not, but you cant be a pushover or a whiner- I know that much.

Life can go one of two ways, you can let your tribulations bring you down, or you can look at them and say "wow- this situation sucks, what can I do to get myself out of it and learn from this" you will find that those that have done well in life will tell you that they have probably never had it easy, I know a lot of farmers for sure that have had years of outright grief before they started to do well- but when they did they knew how to conserve and leverage themselves to prevent the situation from happening again.

It may very well get worse for you before it gets better but you can always take a little comfort in knowing you're not the only one.

 

[LaplacianPyramid]

I'm sorry that I offended some of you. I didn't mean to.


"Most employers, except for the ones with deep pockets are like that, but, did you ever stop to think that maybe it's you?"

Sure, I've thought that many times. I'm definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed. That's my greatest downfall. The odds are there will always be someone who can do a job better and faster than I can. This is probably one reason why I can't find a job. I certainly don't fault employers for picking the smartest candidate. I would do the same thing in their shoes. Still, I would appreciate some response to indicate that they at least looked at my resume.


"You sound like you're from the 'entitled generation.'"

I can't help it what generation I'm from, but I certainly don't feel very entitled. I don't feel like anyone owes me a job. I think the job market is like any other market. I have a service to offer, and no employer is under any obligation to accept my services.


"Respect is earned, not given. To get respect is to be born out or fire, not spoon fed."

I don't ask for any respect. I know I haven't done anything to justify respect. All I did was spend a few years going to school and solving toy problems to make good grades on tests. While I enjoyed learning and felt like I was doing something worthwhile, I know I haven't done anything useful. I guess I've been overeager to get a job because I want to use my education to do something useful so badly.


"Please reframe from making remarks like this. Most of everybody on this board has that 'fancy degree.'"

Again, I'm sorry. I didn't mean any offense. I was only speaking for myself. I have a bit of a self-deprecating sense of humor and never take myself too seriously.

However, I do feel that science & engineering professions are not what they used to be. Gone are the glory days of the Space Race. Kids today are more interested in what Lady GaGa will be wearing at her next concert than the work astronauts do.

I also think that after laying off so many employees, companies have learned they really didn't need all those employees in the first place. The world hasn't fallen apart now that so many engineers are idle. Companies have adapted to do more with less, and so there is an oversupply of engineers. I don't fault the companies for this. They are in business to make money, not to pay engineers.


"I did a search on Indeed.com for "MSEE" and got 4,000+ responses."

While jobs appear plentiful on the surface, it seems most employers are looking for several years of experience. On top of that, my background will only be a good match for a fraction of those jobs. Given those factors, I might be qualified to apply for 10% of those 4,000+ jobs. I've already applied for nearly all of those jobs.


"Had any face-to-face interviews? And still been rejected? If so, then why? I mean, really why? It's all about selling yourself."

I've only had one so far a couple months ago at a contract manufacturer. They didn't contact me after the interview. I did contact them after a week, but they would only say they were still trying to choose a candidate. After a while longer I sent them a letter thanking them for the interview and asking why they apparently decided against me. I just wanted to know for future reference, but I again never got a response. I've been told that employers don't like to give specific reasons for rejecting an interviewee for legal reasons.

I always try to sell myself well. I always talk about engineering topics I feel especially passionate about. I dress professionally and semi-provocatively but avoid anything too revealing or skanky. I make sure to tell about my love for animals and volunteer work for PETA and the ASPCA so that the interviewer can get to know me a little personally.


"Sitting around, sending out e-resumes waiting for the world to beat a path to your door because you got a Master's degree?"

Believe me, I'm not just sitting around. I've done it all. I've gone to all the job fairs in my area and flown to a couple far away fairs. I've handed out resumes to the companies that would take them. Unfortunately, many representatives at job fairs don't seem to actually play any role in hiring. They are just there to talk about the company and refer you to the corporate website to submit a resume. I feel like I've wasted a lot of time at these fairs.

I've called employers on the phone to see if they are hiring. The answer is usually no or that I should apply online. I've dropped by many employers in person, but the answer is the same as calling.


"That's a pretty sad attitude. There are tons of engineering grads doing quite well, even those from polytechnic state universities."

That may have been true several years ago. With the job market the way it is now, companies can and are being choosy. With so many unemployed engineers looking for work, employers have many Ivy League graduates and accomplished engineers to choose from at a bargain price. Naturally they will pick them over someone from a small, obscure college not known for engineering.


I guess I'm just a little disillusioned. For now I have a job waiting tables at my fiance's restaurant, but I will need a real job after we're married. His restaurant barely keeps us afloat as it is. I guess that pressure is the cause of some of my frustration.

Thanks for all your advice. It's been really helpful, especially to know I'm not alone. I've decided to continue my job search for a while longer and to take classes at a local tech to try to get an electrician's apprenticeship.

Thanks again!

 

[IRstuff]

I'm sorry, but your sad attitude permeates and is totally making me nauseous. The reality is that my company, along with others, have been hiring new grads, not all from name schools, so knock that silly chip off your shoulder and get cracking. Wallowing in self-pity is just not going to get you a job.

The statistics belie everything you think is going on. The worst reported engineering jobless rate is only about 20%. That means that 80% of the engineers still interested in a job, have one, TODAY, not 20 years ago. Given that there are something on the order of 80,000 engineering graduates annually in the US, that means roughly 64,000 of them are employed, and they all can't all be graduating from MIT and Caltech, since there's fewer than about 4,000 MIT grads and 250 Caltech grads annually, and not all of them are even engineers.

"However, I do feel that science & engineering professions are not what they used to be. Gone are the glory days of the Space Race. Kids today are more interested in what Lady GaGa will be wearing at her next concert than the work astronauts do."

Puleez, get real. IF that were even remotely true, companies would be begging for engineers, and they're clearly not. The reality is that while you're sitting moaning and whining, THEY are out there beating on doors and grabbing the jobs that you claim you want.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[FeX32]

Verdict:

- 2 sad lads - "pyramid" and "1337"

- $$$ Fruitful engineers $$$ - "everyone else"

This is a natural appetite I see in almost everyone I meet. "If it's no good for me then it surely is garbage for everyone..."


Fe

 

[bridgebuster]

"I'm definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed."

That's the wrong attitude for someone with your credentials. MS degrees in engineering aren't handed out to mental midgets.

If that's the message you're giving a prospective employer, no wonder why you don't hear back.

 

[HVACJACK]

Have you had your resume and CV professionally reviewed? By another engineer? By a human resources professional? By an English major? By a business major?

It seems to me that your response rate (1 in person out of 400) is low- I sent out around 100 and managed 9 in person interviews.

Now, I need to work on my interviewing skills and etiquette but for a new college grad applying for jobs that want more experience than I have, 9% is pretty good.

One approach you can try is to be very specific each day on the job you apply for, write a very convincing cover letter explaining how your past coursework would contribute to the subject matter. make sure you are applying for jobs you have a strong desire to work in- it may "look" like your just sending out a shotgun blast with a vague resume.

Also, don't apply for any jobs older than 3 days. Have a search patten and keep it consistent and if you cant find anything for that one day in 10 minutes, go do something else with your day.

I have also found a little more success from smaller companies with a very direct CV/resume, State agency sites (if your state mandates it) are probably a good place to start... don't discount CL either, I know a few attorneys and myself included (engineer) that browse that site so it's not just good for hookers and blow.

I may be sounding like a broken record but like I said- that was the approach I took and I think I did OK minus my interviewing skills which I am working on- You will get better each interview.

 

[henri2]

Last year graduates from some engineering disciplines had a hard time landing jobs; but I wouldn’t have thought someone with a MSEE would be in that category.

HVACJACK et al have offered sound advice on strategies, including your resume. By the way, did you put your resume together by yourself? If after sending 200 resumes out, I only get 1 letter (and a rejection at that), then I'd have to change gears, because something is obviously wrong with the approach.

Don't get sad or mad, just read this thread again; digest the numerous nuggets and charge forward with renewed energy.

Good luck.

 

[moon161]

If you don't mind curry and insane traffic, I could refer you to some international connections

"I've decided to continue my job search for a while longer and to take classes at a local tech to try to get an electrician's apprenticeship."

Check w/ your IBEW local. At least around buffalo, you need 3500 documented hours of electrical construction to get an apprenticeship. Other locals have fewer barriers to entry. I got enough to cover daycare and a bit more as a helper, but the main benefit was that it beat back the stir crazy.

Unless you can pitch being a dislocated worker, you'll have a hard time getting job training paid for.

Speaking as one who has detoured out of college (6 years tech support phone monkey), you can reenter the field. Passed the FE 12 years post grad, so the necessary brain cells can't have been too badly damaged.

Buffalo has a local job center in addition to the dept of labor, your college should have a career office as well, look something up and go there. The unposted job market is about 4 times larger that the job market in the want ads. The general social engineering, posturing and butt sniffing that ends up getting you a job can be overdone, but when there are typically 5 people for every job opening, it shouldn't be underdone. Study and practice it.

Finally, not to be a cad, but you spent 6 years in school, did you schmooze, intern or otherwise cultivate anything past may 2010?

 

[IRstuff]

"how many people on this board believe they would have got in and that it would have given them a legitimate leg up."

Me... ;-) didn't go, though...

One thing that a good school degree does get you is some tiny amount of leeway and authority amongst peers. However, in general, the output from a CSUF grad is just as accepted as that of a Caltech grad, particularly since they're heavily outnumbered...

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Sorry, a bit off topic from the OP:

"how many people on this board believe they would have got in and that it would have given them a legitimate leg up."

Get in? I did. Didn't go though. I did go to a school ranked higher in my field, although not as nearly as well regarded in general.

The school I chose certainly gave me a leg up, and if I had chosen MIT I'm sure that would have been as helpful or more helpful in my career. Top school are top schools for a reason. It's not so much the material covered, but the people you learn from and the quality of your cohorts.

Of course it's quite field dependent, and the quality of your education depends more on you than it does the school you attend, but all other things being equal, it's clear that some schools offer more opportunities.

Laplacian

I wouldn't move out of engineering yet, as long as it's something you still enjoy. I'd rather make decent money doing something that engages me than slightly better money doing something that bores me. And I don't think you can judge whether you'll really enjoy engineering until you've actually worked for a few years. That said, any electrican qualifications you work on now would certainly not harm your ability to get an engineering job and could easily help.

 

[BJC]

Here's a place to look. If there is a job that looks interesting there is a couple of things you may have to do.
1.) MOVE - the work ain't where you want it to be then you'll have to be where the work is.
2.) Adjust you attitude you may need professional help.

This site use to be called Roadwhore. meaning it was for people who would go anywhere do anything for money. It's more fun than setting around the house feeling sorry for your self.

http://www.roadtechs.com/trans/

http://wwwboard/index2.html

Check the actural employement situation for electricans. There is lots of guys setting on the bench right now.
I know some that haven't worked in two years. When time are good they can go "Booming" and work the good jobs with lots of over time. When things are slow they sit on the bench and take what comes along. Check out the wages in various locals. The good wages and good bennies are with IBEW locals. IF you want to wire houses (running roap). down south in open shop you be just a few bucks of what you can make at wall mart.
Most locals are looking for apprentices. The long term outlook is for a big demand for electricans.
Before you jump over the fence make sure the grass really is greener. Even if it is, don't take your attitude with your.

 

[oldfieldguy]

I' serious... Go look at electrical testing companies. With a EE behind your name, I'd be surprised if you weren't on board with a company in a week, with a path upward.

Electrical engineers with field experience are in demand.



old field guy

 

[electricpete]

It's hard to offer any advice that hasn't already been offerred.

I wouldn't take too seriously the comments about your attitude... I think those people have read too much into your choice of words.

I would second the sentiment expressed by others that if you decide to go into the electrician trade or similar technical work typically performed by non-degreed-engineers, don't view it as a change of career but a stepping stone. The experience can certainly be very valuable toward future engineering jobs in related areas.


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(2B)+(2B)' ?

 

[electricpete]

After a while longer I sent them a letter thanking them for the interview and asking why they apparently decided against me

OK, now I am going to go out on a limb and do what I accused others of (read a lot into your comment.)

There is a protocol and an etiquette that goes with the interview process. There are a number of ways to followup either in writing or phone call. But the gist of your followup should be: "I am really looking forward to this opportunity because of X, Y, and Z..." rather than "I'm conclusing you didn't pick me because I haven't heard anything so please tell me why not".

I'm not trying to be negative but to drive home a point that you may or may not already be familiar with: There are butt-loads of books an articles on every facet of how to conduct a job search including the interviews and the followups. If you haven't spent some serious time studying this during your 6 months, it's time to do so now.

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(2B)+(2B)' ?