Today I was lining up a collection of ovate beehive valve springs (because I have that kind of time) from a Ford 4.6 DOHC 4-valve motor. While doing this, I noticed that roughly half the springs were wound to the right and half wound to the left. Is there any good reason why Ford would specify springs wound in different directions? These are not nested springs... they are the single OEM springs from Ford. I looked at a couple of brand-new heads and all those springs seemed to be wound the same direction. My guess is that some machines wind right, others left but it's all the same to Ford. Is there more to this?
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Right/Left Wound Beehive Spring Mystery. 3
- Thread starter Torquey
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patprimmer
New member
Is anyone other than Rod and myself old enough to remember Chevvy Browns.
The OEM heavy duty spring for SBC back in the 70s and 80s was a brown colour hence the name.
Regards
Pat
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The OEM heavy duty spring for SBC back in the 70s and 80s was a brown colour hence the name.
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
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YvesLLewelyn
Mechanical
Slightly off the subject, but a related matter - Why are beehive springs so much better than conventional springs?
The usual reasons given of slightly less reciprocating weight and oval section don't seem to me to be enough to account for their improved performance.
The usual reasons given of slightly less reciprocating weight and oval section don't seem to me to be enough to account for their improved performance.
NormPeterson
Structural
Might have something to do with surge, the spring mass(es) and how they are distributed.
Might be something here . . .
Norm
Might be something here . . .
Norm
@yves/Norm,
yes, surge behavior is the driver for the "beehive" shape. Having a smaller coil diameter changes the spring rate in that region, so you end up with spring with a surge (rsonant) frequency that varies over the lift event. It's effective for "breaking up" resonance (surge).
yes, surge behavior is the driver for the "beehive" shape. Having a smaller coil diameter changes the spring rate in that region, so you end up with spring with a surge (rsonant) frequency that varies over the lift event. It's effective for "breaking up" resonance (surge).
I recall SBC springs that had a brown coating/paint on them back in the 60's. They were what we used with the Duntov grinds from the Chevy parts counter and to keep the cost down when we started using aftermarket cams. Of course, it wasn't long before we just had to have dual spring set-ups, for our (cranial) heads as much as the fact that we would take the revs up to at least what the cam grinders would claim to be the upper limit of the rev range for a given cam.
Yosh
My first set of dual springs was on my new '61 Vette heads done by Jack Moss Automotive in Amarillo, Texas. Picked up almost a full second (and an NHRA record) from the OEM setup. I was only 22 years old and I did not trust my own ability yet.
Were they brown? Hell, Pat, how am I supposed to remember that far back?
Rod
Were they brown? Hell, Pat, how am I supposed to remember that far back?
Rod
patprimmer
New member
Pat
I thought pink rods were for sissies. ;-)
Regards
Pat
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I thought pink rods were for sissies. ;-)
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
for site rules
NormPeterson
Structural
Pat - old enough, but as I wasn't building Chevvies that far back, "browns" doesn't register. "Pink" rods, camel hump heads, and Duntov 30-30 all do.
Norm
Norm
racecrafter
Automotive
as to the right or left hand winding the only reason I can think of was touched on in the post by swall, I base this on the info that these engines were designed with machine assembly in mind (never touched by human hand)....
as to the benefit of the beehive design, while resonant freq is modified in my opinion the original reason for these springs was much more simple..."how do we fit a larger dia. spring to a head with limited space in the spring seat area.
Not sure you can make much of an argument for beehive springs being "better", all of there benefits can be seen using other spring parameters and combinations and the fatigue life of the beehive design has significant draw backs.
as to the benefit of the beehive design, while resonant freq is modified in my opinion the original reason for these springs was much more simple..."how do we fit a larger dia. spring to a head with limited space in the spring seat area.
Not sure you can make much of an argument for beehive springs being "better", all of there benefits can be seen using other spring parameters and combinations and the fatigue life of the beehive design has significant draw backs.
A third of the way down this page it mentions the Olds version of the 215 aluminum V8 used "conical" valve springs.
I'm guessing it was a weight reducing detail.
I'm guessing it was a weight reducing detail.
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1
- #58
The "beehive" valve spring shape gives increased lateral stability. It also has the characteristic of rising spring rate due to progressively fewer active coils as the spring is compressed. Both of these factors make the beehive spring more resistant to surge. In this regard, a single beehive coil is preferable to multiple coils or a single coil with a dampener, since the beehive would have less friction and heat generation.
Torquey mentioned the springs are "ovate". While he may have been referring to the spring's profile, some very high performance valve springs have been made with oval cross section wire. Round wire is normally used to simplify spring winding. But an oval section wire will give better performance since the spring will be lighter, have a lower installed height, and will have a higher natural frequency than an equivalent round wire spring. The drawback is that winding an oval wire spring is more difficult.
Regards,
Terry
Torquey mentioned the springs are "ovate". While he may have been referring to the spring's profile, some very high performance valve springs have been made with oval cross section wire. Round wire is normally used to simplify spring winding. But an oval section wire will give better performance since the spring will be lighter, have a lower installed height, and will have a higher natural frequency than an equivalent round wire spring. The drawback is that winding an oval wire spring is more difficult.
Regards,
Terry
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