NRP99, I did not say that the allowable stress for hydrotest being higher than the design condition is a problem. On the contrary I said since it is applied just once in the vessel life it can have higher allowable stresses. My question was if the allowables for hydrotest can be higher since it occurs just once then the allowables for shipping can be higher than those for design condition since that loading happens only once in the whole life of the equipment.
NRP99 said:
3. Regarding allowable stress values for the shipping saddles- I guess for vessel stresses you can use the same allowable given in 4.15.
What you said above looked like I should use allowables for design condition in the shipping condition also. Again in the last post you said something that looks paradoxical to previous post.
NRP99 said:
Do you want lower allowable for design/operating condition when there is lot of loads like pressure, TEMPERATURE, wind, seismic acting together than for the shipping loads where only load acting is gravitational/acceleration based load?
So what is the decision? can I use higher allowable stresses for shipping like hydrotest or not?
Unfortunately you may have misunderstood my point about putting aside linear-elastic method for local stresses. I did not say that FE is not appropriate. It is very good but for local stresses linear-elastic analysis is quite troublesome and sometimes could give misleading results if stress categorization is not performed correctly. What I was trying to say is that now that more powerful systems are available it is better to move toward solving these problems by using elastic-plastic method. I agree with
TGS4 for using elastic-plastic method for protection against plastic collapse since this way you will not get trapped by wrong stress classification. For the case of protection against local failure again I prefer to go for elastic plastic method since I think the procedure in VIII-2 for protection against local failure using elastic method is very wrong and shall be avoided. for the case of fatigue analysis since there is no need of stress classification and separation of primary stresses from secondary ones the easiest way is to consider elastic analysis. What
TGS4 has mentioned above regarding using elastic or elastic-plastic methods looks reasonable to my eyes but may be his reasoning is different.
TGS4, I know that the limit on the primary plus secondary stress is about ratcheting failure. But there is no other limit in Part.4 on the local primary membrane stress. This does not sound good practice.
TGS4 said:
These rules may not explicitly require a primary local membrane stress check, but I can assure you that it is generally baked into the rules. It IS important.
If I want to follow the rules in Part.4 then I am certain that the thicknesses obtained from those rules are such that the limit on general membrane and bending stresses and secondary stresses are hidden in the formulas provided by the rules. Nevertheless, In article 4.1.6 the allowable stresses are introduced. If the local primary membrane stress is baked into the rules it is better to put its limit in 4.1.6.
ASME BPVC VIII-2 Edition 2017 said:
4.1.1.2.1 Class 1. When design rules are not provided in Part 4 for a vessel or vessel part, the Manufacturer shall either perform a stress analysis in accordance with Part 5 considering all of the loadings specified in the User’s Design Specification, or, with acceptance by the Authorized Inspector, use a recognized and accepted design-by-rule method that meets the applicable design allowable stress criteria given in 4.1.6. If the design cannot be performed using Part 5 or a design-by-rule method (e.g., creep-fatigue), a design method consistent with the overall design philosophy of Class 1 and acceptable to the Authorized Inspector shall be used.
So suppose that I want to use a design by rule method other than VIII-2 for some detail which is not covered by Part.4. What should I use as the limit on the local primary membrane stress? There is no mention of local primary membrane stress in 4.1.6. The only limiting condition on this stress is that given in 4.1.6.3 which is good for protection against ratchet not plastic collapse.