Sagging floor trusses in condo 7

[DaveNJ]

Hello,
I live in a condo in which the floor trusses deflect by as much as 1.5" over 6'. The two worst areas are at the ends of an interior, weight-bearing wall that runs lengthwise in the middle of the condo across the first floor. Last year after complaining to my HOA, their SE designed a fix that included jacking up the floor and then installing plywood gussets to the floor trusses. Unfortunately, the HOA was unwilling to jack up the floor for fear of collateral damage, but they did go ahead with the plywood gussets, which are now glued and nailed to the trusses.

Now I am still stuck with an unlevel floor and would like to find a fix. One contractor suggested removing the gussets, jacking-up the floor and then re-installing the gussets. I wonder how much damage this would do to the trusses. Another contractor suggested removing the plywood subfloor, shimming the top of the trusses and replacing the plywood. A third contractor suggested installing shimmed sleepers on top of the plywood and then adding another layer of plywood on top. Yet another contractor suggested first installing a wall in the finished basement and then fixing the floor from the top.

The HOA has washed their hands of the problem. I would have to sue them to get any further help from them. Since this is a condo, I am reluctant to invest large amounts in a fix, but on the other hand, think I need a level floor to sell the place. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Dave

P.S. The trusses are 12" high and the longest spans are 20'. The condo is 25 years old and there is no evidence that the floor has been sinking further over at least the last 10 years - no cracks in tile or walls.

 

[DaveNJ]

Thanks. I have been in three other similar units and they do have some deflection, but much less. I know one of the units has a wall in the basement which I suppose may provide some additional support.

Regarding legal action, I suppose I could have an attorney write a letter to my HOA, but I think I would need some new, convincing ammunition to get them to take action. Perhaps threatening to go to the township Building Inspector, as Garth Dreger suggested. The plywood gusset work done by the HOA was not covered by a specific building permit. Revealing that information to the township may cause the HOA and contractor to be fined. ??

An attorney told me that going to court would cost me $5,000 just for starters and not including fees of expert witnesses. So, I wonder if I'd be better off devoting the $5,000 towards a fix. At least then I could pick the contractor and control the design.

 

[msquared48]

Yes, but you could open yourself up to a can of worms if your peoblem is fixed, but someone elses is worsened. Your fix could even make a problem for another condo owner where none existed. You REALLY need to think this one through.

Whatever fix, or series of fixes happens, it should be agreed to by all parties. Be careful here.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[cvg]

the HOA doesnt want to pay an attorney or expert witness any more than you do. you might consider splitting the cost to fix it with them in return for a promise to not take them to court. If they did not follow the plans and didnt get a permit, they are at a significant disadvantage i would think

 

[shobroco]

Dave: Gypcrete & new flooring today, & a for sale sign in the future after you can say you`ve lived with it long enough to know it`s not falling on anyone below you, would be my recommendations.

 

[msquared48]

Gypcrete? Are you kidding? I wouldn't not put any more dead load on the joists until the reason for the failure is identified. It may not be just the plates. Some other mechanism may have causality them to fail.

Sorry, I meant would not.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[shobroco]

The trusses have apparently been repaired with glued & nailed plywood gussets, so the original design means nothing. The deflection is incredible, L48, but it is there & is now fixed. An inch of Gypcrete is pretty negligible in weight when you look at typical specified loads, so I`d be willing to bet it will work.

 

[msquared48]

Sorry, but at this point, I can't agree.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[rowingengineer]

I dont bet with others lives, get a structural engineer to make the calls.

http://www.nceng.com.au/

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

 

[ajk1]

A wise engineer of blessed memory told me almost 50 years ago, to determine the cause of the problem before trying to fix it.
You mention only the excessive deflection, which is a "serviceabilty" issue, but there is the even more important "strength" issue of whether the trusses are adequate to support the load without overstress in accordance with the building Code, and if not, do the added gussets bring it into compliance with the Code.
In keeping with that wise engineer's advice, might I suggest that you retain a structural engineer experienced in timber design, to check whether the origional design was correct with regard to both strength and serviceability, and if it was not, then to identify where it was deficient and whether the gussets that were added would fully rectify the problem. If the engineer's report says that it is not deqaute to met Code, then I would expect that the condo corporation would be obliged to fix it properly.
I share the opinions of others about undertaking any repair such as gypsum fill, which I think is unwise unless it is firat checked out by a strcutural engineer. If the trusees have inadequate strength, you will be making things a bit worse, and then you will be liable for any subsequent issues. I don't think that you want to go there.

 

[JAE]

Gypcrete dry density is 110 pcf which for the 1.5" deflection reported in the original post equates to 13 psf additional load.

For a 15 psf dead load (typical) and a 40 psf residential live load, 13 psf is a significant increase.

 

[BAretired]

Further to JAE's post, if you are using Gypcrete to level the floor, you would need more than 1.5" because the floor will deflect as the material is added. Not a good idea.

BA