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Sanibel island causeway 10
- Thread starter Frank2020
- Start date
![[pipe]](/data/assets/smilies/pipe.gif "[pipe] [pipe]")
It's pretty easy to use emminate domain to acquire land to build pipelines. Why is it objectionable not to do so to make barrier island parks and recreation areas. Emminate Domain is a right of the public to use land for the public good and as such holds higher precedence than any individual's right to private ownership.
Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
1503-44,
You are correct that laws of eminent domain can apply to recreational areas. But the barrier islands are already recreational areas. The individual property rights do not extend across the beach, and there are plenty of access points. And there are National Seashores in most of the barrier island states. If there were a need for more parks or recreation areas, it can be done, but I don't see it.
Cape Hatteras National Seashore is just one of many.
You are correct that laws of eminent domain can apply to recreational areas. But the barrier islands are already recreational areas. The individual property rights do not extend across the beach, and there are plenty of access points. And there are National Seashores in most of the barrier island states. If there were a need for more parks or recreation areas, it can be done, but I don't see it.
Cape Hatteras National Seashore is just one of many.
Some believe that barrier islands are critical "natural infrastructure" in themselves as well are a critical environmental necessity. They protect the mainland from exactly these kinds of events, yet when you build on them, you negate their primary advantages. Even if not critical infrastructure, they are arguably a resource that should be of benefit to all people, not just those few that can afford to build and perhaps lose everything uninsured and build again. Lastly, it should just make common sense. It's probably statistically far better to build on the slopes of Mount Etna than on any barrier island, without even considering climate change issues making things that much worse. Florida damages are at somewhere near $65B USD. Who pays for that. Rebuild money that could otherwise be invested in things which could provide something useful, or at least a lot of permanent jobs, rather than just a year of construction services. Negating common sense, is rebuilding there really an effective use of capital.
Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
Another way to make gas prices go up is increase the taxes on it. Simple, there be less demand.
I saw gas at $3.57 this morning, so CA its your taxes that are the issue.
Barrier islands are critical, so rather than government pay to protect them. Why not sell off some of the land so people can build, with additions of wood and concrete, and rock.
The causeway also provides access to the thousands of people who want to use those beaches. So not rebuilding it just hurts the people of the state, and businesses. Be realistic, it is a good thing.
It's not like the only barrier island with a causeway. And it is not the only state that has them.
Look at all the tourism that happens around south Padre island in Texas.
The thing is, barrier islands are mostly made up of sand, which can move with the waves over time. If one wants to keep them, then some rock is needed. Can't do that without money.
Besides the university I went to used emanate domain to acquire land for an athletic center, and I never gave them another dime. I would not visit a beach or hotel that I knew was stolen from people that way.
That said, there are very few times when emanate domain needs to be used, and a beach is not one of them.
I saw gas at $3.57 this morning, so CA its your taxes that are the issue.
Barrier islands are critical, so rather than government pay to protect them. Why not sell off some of the land so people can build, with additions of wood and concrete, and rock.
The causeway also provides access to the thousands of people who want to use those beaches. So not rebuilding it just hurts the people of the state, and businesses. Be realistic, it is a good thing.
It's not like the only barrier island with a causeway. And it is not the only state that has them.
Look at all the tourism that happens around south Padre island in Texas.
The thing is, barrier islands are mostly made up of sand, which can move with the waves over time. If one wants to keep them, then some rock is needed. Can't do that without money.
Besides the university I went to used emanate domain to acquire land for an athletic center, and I never gave them another dime. I would not visit a beach or hotel that I knew was stolen from people that way.
That said, there are very few times when emanate domain needs to be used, and a beach is not one of them.
Not stateside. We have ~75% of the track mileage worldwide within our borders and intentionally prioritize freight traffic vs passenger trains for the sake of efficiency. Freighters are much heavier and go farther, faster, with fewer stops, and many of our major cities are much further from seaports than Asia or Europe so not prioritizing them would run up the cost of living needlessly due to freight costs alone. Travel by car and airline is also fast, cheap, and convenient here, and our cities not nearly as dense as elsewhere so IMHO the current system makes perfect sense.
As to building on a barrier, yea, that's dumb and those folks should be paying 100% of the rebuilding cost themselves. No insurance, no govt assistance or funding, none.
Maybe they just want to stabilise the landslide zone. Makes as much sense as your barrier island construction arguement.
Better to access barrier islands by non permanent means. A boat. That would also stop their destruction from dune buggies rolling over the fragile dune vegetation. Texas has to spend taxpayer money hauling out and depositing spent Christmas trees to replace the dune 's natural vegetation destroyed by 4wd.
Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
Better to access barrier islands by non permanent means. A boat. That would also stop their destruction from dune buggies rolling over the fragile dune vegetation. Texas has to spend taxpayer money hauling out and depositing spent Christmas trees to replace the dune 's natural vegetation destroyed by 4wd.
Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
Dunes change daily with the wind, not by dune buggies. In fact, thousands of dune buggies can lay their tracks in the sand one day and the entire dune will by absolutely pristine by the next morning. I don't get where this hatred of dune buggies comes from. It's one of the more environmentally friendly forms of activity.
Tug - dune buggies in the desert and dune buggies over grasses on the beach aren't the same thing. Those grasses are quite fragile, and without their root systems the dunes move a lot more. Since we depend on dunes in coastal areas as protection against wave action (a flood is bad, a flood with waves is devastating), driving dune buggies over beach dunes is a horrible idea. Also, those beach grasses are one of the few food sources for the wild horses that live out here.
I love taking my Jeep on the beach on Hatteras and the other islands - but I stay off the dunes and other off limits zones, sticking to the designated traffic areas. Would have been nice to be here when nobody else was and be able to do what I want, but I'm about 200 years too late for that, and I probably would have been killed by pirates anyway.
I love taking my Jeep on the beach on Hatteras and the other islands - but I stay off the dunes and other off limits zones, sticking to the designated traffic areas. Would have been nice to be here when nobody else was and be able to do what I want, but I'm about 200 years too late for that, and I probably would have been killed by pirates anyway.
SuperSalad
Chemical
Dune buggies?! It is illegal to walk on the dunes here on the NJ barrier islands in order to preserve the dune grasses.
- Andrew
- Andrew
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
We've got Pismo Beach out here. The grass is easy to avoid, it only grows in specific places. In Oregon there is so much grass it doesn't seem to be bothered much. I think the problem is that dune buggies are very symbolically "American" and that bothers some people.
An article on the price of gas...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
There is a possibility that with climate change, in order to reduce the carbon footprint that could change dramatically.
![[ponder]](/data/assets/smilies/ponder.gif "[ponder] [ponder]")
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
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TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
This is going way too far off topic. I'm going to bow out.
One thing to keep in mind regarding the whole tax payer money argument: a lot of the road projects in Florida are paid for by the tourists. I'm not sure about Ft. Myers, but up in Pinellas County there's an extra 1% sales tax on all non-essential goods that goes, mostly, toward infrastructure improvements, parks, etc. No income tax in the state.
Now, FEMA dollars going to home owners, federal highway dollars going toward road construction, etc. are a different matter. But a lot of the smaller, local road projects could be paid for by local tourism.
It may not be wise to build on these, or in other environmentally hazardous areas, but that's not going to stop people from doing it. A lot of people who know that sea level rise is happening still choose to live in low lying areas on the water because...why not? It's here now, I'll enjoy it, and I'll move when I have to. Short sighted? Maybe. But that's their choice. We just need to shift public policy to make it clear that while it's your choice to make, the rest of society won't bear your burden because of it.
Now, FEMA dollars going to home owners, federal highway dollars going toward road construction, etc. are a different matter. But a lot of the smaller, local road projects could be paid for by local tourism.
It may not be wise to build on these, or in other environmentally hazardous areas, but that's not going to stop people from doing it. A lot of people who know that sea level rise is happening still choose to live in low lying areas on the water because...why not? It's here now, I'll enjoy it, and I'll move when I have to. Short sighted? Maybe. But that's their choice. We just need to shift public policy to make it clear that while it's your choice to make, the rest of society won't bear your burden because of it.
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
Maybe a little disaster here and there is a good thing. How long are these structures supposed to last? It seems like modern home construction is built to last around 25 years which is about the same frequency of hurricane or even fire events. Afterwards, the homes start to degrade without extensive maintenance which many homeowners defer.
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