Searching for jobs in other cities 3

[skeletron]

Does anyone have experience with searching/applying for/stumbling upon job offers from other cities? Do companies approach these with a trial period mentality (eg. work for 3 months in the new location, then proceed with relocation) to alleviate some risk? How did you as a prospective employee go about applying and getting the job? I would love to hear some lessons learned.

 

[RRiver]

I'm not proud of it but I am grateful, nepotism. After just short of 5 years I settled in on what I really wanted to be involved with and through friendships I had made, now called networking, I found work.

I moved from the US to Europe and there was no trial period although I don't think that's unheard of. In my situation, how we worked was as much a consideration as what we were doing. It was feast or famine. Months of 18 to 20 hour days and living out of suitcases followed by weeks of easy going 2 or 3 days a week to sometimes as little as a half a day a week. That's not for everybody. I was with people that had been through 3, 4 and even 5 marriages. On another forum here someone posted a question about time management and participants discussed techniques of ridged time management. I chuckled. There's nothing wrong with working like that but it's not for everybody.

A lesson? There's more to a job than applying a discipline you put time and money in to learning. I remember talking to a recent graduate years back that was excited about getting a chance to interview with a small company that tested prototype automotive related designs. The company worked exclusively in isolated, extreme environments, hot and cold and primarily with military equipment and he wasn't aware of any of that. The job didn't match his dreams for his first job. He put it all together with heading home or to the hotel at 5 everyday because that's what he wanted it be. Lesson, look for work that fits you. Don't try fitting yourself to a job. Less need for a trial period. Less chance of being miserable and looking for a way to bow out respectfully.

 

[GregLocock]

I've had to move hundreds if not thousands of miles for every new job. If a company's recruitment policies are so poor as to need a probationary period then I'd be inclined to write some very hard language into the contract.



Cheers

Greg Locock


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[RRiver]

I agree Greg but there a few exceptions. It's not unheard of that recent grads starting there first job will have a probationary period. The second exception I know of is with the countries that will grant a work visa before the background check is finished. Most companies will put permanent employment contingent on a successful visa issuance. They're not going to transfer a new hire to another country where they can get a visa.

 

[jari001]

For context, I live and work in the USA and I'm assuming you're single and don't currently own a house. Out of curiosity, what interests you in looking into work in a "far away" land?

When I've moved for jobs, I've negotiated relocation assistance. Depending on the amount, I would have to pay back all the money if I don't stay for an agreed upon time (e.g. 1 to 2 years). In my forays into job postings, I have found relocation assistance is usually not be part of the job description so I ask about it in the first interview and usually companies are open to negotiating about it. Sometimes, the company wants someone local or doesn't have that in the budget and then you have to decide if the opportunity is work dipping into your savings for. I have never been asked to move for a job with relocation assistance being given after a trial period, but one job I had dispersed the relocation money via my first two paychecks so there was a lag in the cashflow. However, they did allow me to expense the costs of looking for a place to live (i.e. hotels in the area while I apartment hunted). Luckily I had money saved to cover apartment security deposits and incidental moving costs.

I didn't change anything about how I applied for jobs that weren't in my "no-relo needed" zone, but I have read elsewhere that companies can use their automated review system to screen out applicants by their stated location if they want (but a person can do that too). I mainly use online tools for job hunting, but I always put out a message to folks in my network that I'm looking. I'd check if the place you want to go to has a subreddit (you'd be surprised) if it's a totally new place so you can see if you may like living there.

 

[IRstuff]

Every hiring decision involves a monetary calculus; so long as the expected future benefits, which is subjective, exceed the acquisition and cumulative cost, the decision can be made in your favor. This leaves you two factors to play with, the cost and the benefit. The more benefit you bring, the more it offsets the cost.

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[tz101]

Are there any companies that are agreeable to a guaranteed contract to employ you for a specific time period (5 years, for example)? As in, they don't bring you there for a year, and then show you the door as soon as the big project is completed?

 

[IRstuff]

No, no one can even guarantee 6 months, much less 5 yr. Just consider what everyone was thinking the economy would look like 6 months ago, compared with 25 million people suddenly unemployed in the US.

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[RRiver]

Sure. Then there's the reality that contractual terms such as length are nothing more than feel good placebos. Somewhere buried in the contract is language outlining the employer's process for justifying darn near any reason to break the terms of the contract.

 

[IRstuff]

The flip side is that such a guarantee is a test to see how gullible you are.

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[tz101]

We had an IT guy at a place I worked. He had a fairly secure job at his old place before he came to work with us. He told me that the only way he came to our place was to get a guaranteed contract to employ him for at least three years. Evidently, he got the guaranteed contract, because he came.

 

[RRiver]

LOL. There are a limited number of people companies go after by name. When I was involved in compliance there was a guy around for a short time that was an actuary with a Phd along with a law degree and had passed the Bar Exam. Nobody told him what to do or how to do it. He told everyone else what to do and how to do it. What you bring with you matters.

 

[MTNClimber]

I’ve only seen trial period language as tool to protect the company from bad hires. Although I’ve never never seen it used, I personally think it’s a good idea but I can see it being difficult for the employee that’s picking up and moving their life to a new location. I would imagine it would not be good for their reputation to use the trial period as a means to fire someone which is probably why I’ve never seen it used. Although I would guess it might be used at several large national and international companies where they can be more cold blooded.

I’ve moved 2,500 miles for a job. There was plenty of opportunity for me to quickly move up the ladder and play a key role in the company’s management team. I left the company after about 1.5 years because I just didn’t see eye to eye with a couple of my superiors and they pretty much lied to me about the work they typically do. Several key personnel left in my short time there for similar reasons.

I’ve learned that it’s very hard to tell if your going to mesh well within a company. People can be very nice and easy to talk to during the hiring process but then difficult to talk to when it comes to work and business practices.

If it’s a local only firm, it’s tough to obtain information on their reputation unless you have contacts in that area. Even that’s not always reliable as there is a lot of bias out there.

If it gets serious, I would recommend at least getting out there to visit them in person. Assess their office, meet the personal you will be working with, ect. Ask them or others where good places to live. If commute time is important, maybe book a hotel in the area you’re looking at moving to. Drive into the office around normal rush hour to help find a location that you like. If you sublet for a bit, I would do at least 6 months. I made the mistake of doing 2 months and it just wasn’t enough time to find a great fit for my wife and I.

Also, make sure to negotiate them covering moving costs. Gas, hotels, packing supplies, and movers can cost several thousands.

 

[RRiver]

Good post Climber. Something I've done when interviewing with a place I know little about is I request some time to walk around the place so I can talk to the people working there. What do they have to say? Believe it or not, there have been places that told me no. I could not take the time to walk around and talk to other employees. I'd been offered but never took the job at a place that said no. I could have been wrong but assumed there were things that were going to be said they didn't want me to hear or know.

 

[skeletron]

Thanks for the input and experiences. There are some really important points that I am going to mull over and consider as I move forward. Not sure how broad my search will be.

 

[NOLAscience]

I've seen hiring where the new employee showed up for the first day of work and his blood pressure was too high, so the company took him on a 3-month probationary hire. He was in a real bind, because of course he had already quit his prior job. I think he stayed on, because I don't remember him leaving the company. I guess he just took loads of hypertensive meds until the second physical.