Setting up a Materials Lab 3

[Metallographer5]

Hi all,

I have just been hired at a company as a materials engineer. I have an undergraduate degree in chemistry, and I am currently getting my Master's in materials engineering. For the past couple of years, I worked full time as a metallographer for a university research lab and did very mundane quantitative metallography tasks (the job was very relaxed). I am the only materials engineer on staff at my new company, and we are in the process of building a materials lab to aid in our R&D efforts. It is my responsibility to setup everything regarding the materials lab including organization, paperwork, testing procedures etc. and as you can tell I feel pretty overwhelmed with this responsibility. I was hoping that you experts could provide me with some insight on this and maybe give me tips on how things should be ran in a professional materials lab. Most of our products are made of steel, and many of the tests are either for R&D testing and new product development, or for failure analysis of existing products in the field. So far the equipment that we have is: fume hood, sectioning saw, sample press, optical microscope, metallographic microscope w/camera, optical comparitor, grind and polishing station, two instrons, a three point bend fixture, rockwell tester, microhardness tester, and several measuring devices. The first thing that I would like to do is come up with a comprehensive list of all the types of various material test requests (ASTM or others) that can be submitted to me so that I can create a lab submittal form. Some examples of these would be core hardness, case hardness, average grain size, etc. In addition, if anyone has any good ideas on how to organize and run the lab that would be greatly appreciated. Once again I feel pretty overwhelmed so anything will be helpful!

Thanks,
Bob

 

[EdStainless]

Not to be dumping more on you.
The way that I would approach this is from both ends.
- The practical, how people will submit samples, what test to do, how to track and record results.
- The system, You will need specifications (mostly ASTM vol 1.01, 1.03, 3.01, 3.02) and controlled quality system procedures. This includes the database for recording all samples and results.

If you build the quality system part first then you will know that you are getting the desired results. A lab that doesn't have controlled procedures for everything including sample tracking, data management, calibration and testing procedures is just giving people guesses.

A number of us here run (or have run) labs. You will get a lot of advice.
I would start by dividing the lab into sections, mechanical, metallography, corrosion/chemistry.
Then think about the tests in each area and how samples would come to you. You will assign a number, track where it is, what is being done, the amount of time spent, the results, and generate a report.
If you break it down there are a number of common elements to the processes.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

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Plymouth Tube

 

[CoryPad]

This was a good thread from the past: thread330-249925

 

[arunmrao]

Suggest you meet some of the experts from ASM. They can be a good sounding board. You need to categorize and prioritize the various tests. However,most important would be documentation and seeking 3rd party approvals or accreditation,without them,your reports might not be well received.

_____________________________________
"It's better to die standing than live your whole life on the knees" by Peter Mayle in his book A Good Year

 

[EdStainless]

Even more to the point that Atunmrao made, if you read the various lab standards first (ALLA and such) then you can build your systems that way.
You may not be looking for certifications today, but pretend that you are. It will make your life much easier in the long run.

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Plymouth Tube

 

[metengr]

Excellent point by arunmrao.

 

[Guest102023]

Good advice above.

Can't advise on the best way/place to acquire new/used equipment, but you will also need to make case by case determinations about in-house testing vs. subcontracting. To cite an obvious example, it makes no sense to buy a 60 ton tensile tester for one weld procedure qualification per month when 99% of your volume is strip tensiles for the automotive industry. Not to mention the floor space, training, and maintenance and calibration costs such equipment requires. Certified calibration is another area to manage within your QA program, which I agree must come before almost anything else.

Machining and outsourcing or machining is a perennial issue for small to midsized labs. Machine shops don't make money on occasional little oddball jobs, and they will let you know it by the exorbitant pricing and slow service. Not to mention the running around by you or your minions.

Good luck!

 

[swall]

It is also hard to justify an SEM if one has a close by source for such work.

 

[EdStainless]

Another thought for you Bob,
Where are you located?
You need to work on making good friends with a good local testing lab.
1. For advise on all sorts of things (sources of supplies, which software to use, how to track projects....)
2. To help with training for you, and maybe some of your techs
3. A source for testing that you don't do frequently and can't justify the equipment for
4. As backup when you have stuff broken

We have two area lobs that I work with as often as I can. Sometimes it just dropping by on Fri afternoon with a 6 pack.
You need friends.

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Plymouth Tube

 

[TVP]

Bob,

Lots of good advice so far. Something to keep in mind: failure analysis is considerably different than performing standardized tests (hardness, tensile, case depth, etc.) according industry specifications (ASTM, ISO, etc.). How confident are you in your skills regarding evaluation of features on a variety of tested components and assemblies, e.g. corrosion of painted/plated steel parts, fractography of castings/forgings/weldments, fasteners, etc? Unless you have some significant training in this area specific to the type of products you will be working on, it would be best to outsource failure analysis while you increase your knowledge through on-the-job training. If you don't already have the ASM HANDBOOK collection, I strongly encourage you to obtain this, either electronically or as the good old-fashioned print versions. I would venture to say that the payback on this type of investment by your employer can be measured in weeks or months.

 

[Metallographer5]

Great advice everyone! And TVP brings up a great point, I do not have an extensive background in failure analysis but I am hoping to eventually learn these things on the job. Most of our samples that we have will be sent out for third party testing, but it will be my responsibility in the future to absorb this testing. I will have my master's degree in materials engineering in a few months, and I have not learned a great deal about failure analysis. For someone like me who has an extensive background with standardized testing, what would be the best way to start learning failure analysis techniques (without spending a whole lot of money!).

 

[Guest102023]

TVP,

You are exactly correct in your comments on failure analysis. It has very little to do with being able to run a good testing lab. I would go even further and say that far fewer people are called to failure analysis as a career than work at it. Besides considerable metallurgical knowledge, you need solid experience in a related industry, be a quick study on processes and equipment, possess strong analytic and deductive reasoning skills, as well as written communication skills in the 90 percentile range (for engineers). These are not things you will learn in a book or a course.

I had two things going for me: I had always really wanted to do it, and when the opportunity came, I benefited from having an outstanding mentor.

p.s., I am not trying to discourage you!

 

[mrfailure]

Failure analysts have to start somewhere. I was lucky that my first job involved R&D as well as light failure analysis, which allowed me to wet my toes while getting basic failure analysis experience. There certainly are good resources for you to use, Bob, if you want to incorporate failure analysis in your work (including ASM failure analysis books), but make sure you do not get in over your head. Failure analysts such as myself often work with organization materials engineers to compliment their skills when needed, or at least to provide a sounding board. To that end, I would also give you general advice to network with your local chapter of ASM. I get lots of good advice and ideas just from going to monthly meetings.

Good luck!