Siemens Westinghouse Operating Plant Service Agreement

[ahung]

Does anyone know about this agreement with Siemens Westinghouse. Basically OPSA is a contract with SW to supply new parts and offer repair services of gas turbines parts.
Our Power plant here in Venezuela have five (5) CT model W501D5 100 MW each one. This machines running at base load simple cycle burning natural gas as main fuel. Two year ago AES signed an OPSA agreement with SW for 12 years.

Someone has any experience with OPSA Agreement, I like to know how is the customer services from SW. We have very bad experiences with new parts (Defects, details that reflects lack of quality control) and refurbished parts (Bad repairs like cracks on welds)

Regards

Alberto J. Hung C
Caracas Venezuela

 

[taylorg]

Alberto,

I would be very surprised if SW have been supplying "pirate" non-OEM parts, but does your contract specify that OEM parts must be used?
Your contract should also contain provisions allowing recourse for defective workmanship and/or materials.

Have SW been admitting that the parts are faulty and hence replacing them, and are you referring to blades and vanes?

 

[ahung]

Hi taylorg in order to clarify the situation let me do a brief explain: SW by OPSA agreement sale to us new parts at low normal list prices and also offer refurbishment for used parts with some discount in compariso with the normal tariff. We receive some new parts from SW with details or defects. SW recognize his fault and they need to change the parts in some cases (for example a complete set of Row 2 Blades) or send to our installation a qualified personal to fix on site repaired parts with defects(For example in transition pieces they need to welded a scoop because the welds are in bad condition: presence of some cracks)
In other case we receive a complete new tilting pads for exhaust bearing without orifices for thermocouples.


Regards

Alberto J. Hung C
Caracas Venezuela

 

[rmw]

Sounds like SW needs to check with GE about how to start a good six sigma program.

Some of what you are encountering sounds like just plain old poor quality control, which all OEM's suffer from to some degree or other. Especially if the parts are outsourced, and their inspectors are not regularily in the vendors plants.

Can you determine where the parts are originating from? If from other than the USA, I would incorporate an intensive inspection program on incoming parts.

When I was a service engineer for one of those companies, we regularily received defective parts, and at first it really irked me. Then one day it dawned on me that it was job security for me. If they wanted to ship junk, then I had employment getting it fixed in the field.

The ultimate was a generator rotor that wouldn't balance, and in order to make production, they said 'ship it and let the field balance it.' Well, what they failed to notice was that this unit (behind a GT) was for a demonstraton CCGT plant right on the very plant site as the manufacturing facility. When the field engineers finally determined that there were broken slats in the generator rotor, heads rolled all the way to the top at the OEM. Yes, there is a God.

rmw

PS: I am posting from a spanish speaking country and this spanish keyboard is driving me nuts. ¿How do you do it?

 

[ahung]

Hi rmw as you mentioned in your post SW must be start like GE a SIX SIGMA program to improve his customer satisfaction about new parts and refurbished parts.
I think that SW have many providers for made new parts and for repair used parts of CT. Our machines (W501D5 year 1981)have more than 20 years in the gas turbine market and now this model SW don´t produce anymore. We can found all parts by differents vendors like GE, TURBOCARE, WOOD, MITSUBISHI, SERMATECH, etc but since the machines are in commercial operation (12 years ago) we always buy the parts and services first to Westinghouse and now to Siemens Westinghouse.
Another examples of this problem was happened with two new combustor baskets one of them without cooling orifices and the other has different serial number according with the SW manuals.
New Dry Low NOx Transition piece without cooling orifices.
SW change the acceptance criteria for cylinder transition in Service Bulletin from 0,250 mils inch to 0,025 mils. When you try to inspect the concentricity of new cylinder transition almost all of them (14 for one set)not satisfy with Service Bulletin criteria.
PS: About spanish keyboard you need to practice until you learn it.



Regards

Alberto J. Hung C
Caracas Venezuela

 

[turboco1]

Alberto,

SerWesCa is _the_ shop in the new estado Bolivariano de la Republica Venezolano, no? Maracaibo.

I have some experience with their work in Colombia.

SerWesCa works on all the SW equipment and uses TurboCare in the good ol' us of a on non SW stuff... SW takes care of their own stuff, right? That is, if it is Westinghouse, it goes through SerWesCa or Orlando or TurboCare in Houston, no?

Furthermore, the comment, "If from other than the USA, I would incorporate an intensive inspection program on incoming parts." Just one comment: GE's six sigma si habla espanol y que bueno que si, GE has 19 manufacturing facilities in Mexico, for their steam turbine blades visit:

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/1999_06/pr0801.htm

Get the best components for the best price Ing. Hung, no matter where they must come. If SW is not up to snuff try some suppliers that need your business to survive and not just to fill shareholders pockets like most o e me's.

 

[abeltio]

excellent thread... very interesting...

first, a tip and a question to rmw... if you are using windows... change the keyboard layout to us-international... and you will never go back to any other...
the RHS alt gives all the accented/special symbols
ñáéíóú硲³¤€¼½¾‘’¥×÷ÄÅÉÞÜÚÍÓÓÖÁ§Ø°¨Æ¢ÑÇ¿µñ...

catch: you have to type by tact, i.e. not looking at the keyboard.
or... you may affix labels according to the differences.

now... to ahung...

seems like your contract is not very, ahem, robust...
i have first hand experience with this type of contracts and if the supplier can get away with so much, errrr... bullhorns... for lack of a better, politically correct, word... it is because the contract is not protecting you.
are there availability guarantees? L/D's? clauses indicating that the parts must be supplied free of defects and with provenance certificates (i.e. oem made)?

as customer you should not be worrying about this kind of things... if you have an OPSA the whole idea is that you don't have to worry about all these issues... just getting the fired hours and the output out of the unit.

read the contract, see what provisions are there... estoy seguro que debe haber algún tipo de protección contra este abuso.

if the situation persists... the contract should have provisions to start "communicating formally" with the supplier.

12 years is a long way to go... if you do not have any protection in the contract against poor workmanship, defects etc you will be hitting a brick wall or... as i learned from a maracucho on my first day in maracaibo: vergación de coñazo...
P

saludos.
a.

 

[walkerny]

In regards to the term "Prirate" for non-OEM parts, I think that is old thinking. The later poster was right, get good parts at the best cost, regardless of OEM, non-OEM. Sure, use good judgement, particularly when the shop is in some far flung place with no track record.

Having worked for an OEM captive supplier, and a non-OEM manufacturer as manufacturing engineer, Quality Manager, Program Manager and sales, I can tell you it is much easier being a non-OEM manufacturer.

Quality? The market demands high quality, so you either produce it or you are gone.

What you get to do is manufacture without the OEM's ever costly presence and wasted effort. You cut them out as middle men, and get your product to the end user or O&M shop directly.

Even at a lower cost to the end user, the margin for non-OEM manufacturers is typically comfortable. There is no OEM breathing down your neck, demanding concession after concession or they will remove the work. There is always someone who will do it cheaper, and OEM suppliers are treated pretty shabbily.

Joe Walker / Stork H&E Turbo Blading. Steam turbine blades, buckets, nozzles, gas turbine compressor blades, vanes, IGV, rotors, stators.