Solar powered ferry replaces diesel powered ferry and doesn't work 3

[GregLocock]

Typical enthusiastic government spends other people's money on renewable river ferry that doesn't work, and needs to reintroduce old one.

Somebody wrote a very bad spec, or somebody else didn't meet it. Or a lot of both

https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/fact-check-requested-schleswig-holstein-solar-ferry.69447/

Mind you all over the world governments seem to be led by the nose when it comes to ferries, Tasmania Bass strait ferries are an ongoing tale in buying rubbish at great cost.




Cheers

Greg Locock


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[Oops409]

Clearly another 'GREEN' Failure on all fronts! Great find! And clearly this is an Engineering Disaster and Failure............

 

[dik]

Electrification seems to work elsewhere...

https://insideevs.com/news/491590/largest-electric-ferry-norway-oslo/

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

The funniest part about this story is that the guy that bought the original ferry allowed it to become dilapidated and then sold it back for over 5x his purchase price.

 

[LittleInch]

But when you actually read the story, the issue is the bigger size of the vessel, not that it is solar powered.

The design seems poor and not right through properly, but don't start using this as a solar power sister story based on that article.

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[TugboatEng]

LI, why did the vessel need to be larger?

 

[GregLocock]

The windage of the ferry was substantially increased because it had a roof to mount the panels.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[TugboatEng]

And the ferry had to be physically larger/heavier to house the batteries.

This one is a good candidate for the engineering disasters forum.

 

[Oops409]

ESG mentioned at end of video, is a new term for me, but the shoe fits.

 

[LittleInch]

So the design was crap, we can see that.

It didn't mean the intention was wrong.

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Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Oops409]

It is similar to US allowing refinery's to sell dirty diesel, which requires less production costs, then they later bandaid added on so called pollution reducing devices on the end item, in attempt to make up for not requiring the refinery's to process and only sale cleaner diesel. aka, ASG or USSG if you prefer.

Which now shortens engine life, increases consumer fuel and maintenance costs, and lowers fuel economy so that you burn more fuel which offsets potential gains.

I assume lobbyist in the US were from different industries than Europes, thus the ASG solution?

And I should not omit mixing 10% corn in gasoline, so that it increases maintenance and fuel related issues, and lowers fuel economy by 10% so you have to burn more real gasoline!

ASG again

 

[TugboatEng]

So the design was crap, we can see that.

It didn't mean the intention was wrong.

This applies to most climate change projects.

 

[Tomfh]

It didn't mean the intention was wrong

We're engineers. Intentions don't count. Only results do.

 

[LittleInch]

My point is also made int he original linked article, i.e. "Many, but not all, of the problems encountered are the result of the new ferry being much larger than the old one with twice the carrying capacity. "

So someone decided to double the carrying capacity of this chain ferry from about 6 cars to about 12 by the look of it.

All these issues could easily have occurred with a conventionally powered ferry. So it is an engineering issue in that no one clearly put all the bits together and my guess is they salami sliced the design up into bits like the ferry alone, then the chain, then no one did an assessment of wind loads or current loads on the bigger vessel.

This still has nothing to do with it being solar powered and its the glee behind these stories which I don't like...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[TugboatEng]

Perhaps the size of the ferry has to be doubled in order to carry sufficient battery capacity. The batteries will be carried low and the cars carried on top so the extra space for batteries resulted in extra capacity on deck.

In a car or truck you can increase weight without increasing the size of the vehicle. The same is not true for a boat. Batteries are heavy.

 

[LittleInch]

Just looked to me like they wanted more capacity, but underpowered the thing. Crap design with silo engineering.

The thing looked to have doubled in size and maybe the batteries added extra weight which the ferry designers didn't think was important, somehow forgetting that extra depth and area exposed to the current added more load on the cables / chains. The solar panels acting "like a sail" is just BS as they are actually all horizontal. Its the strangest "sail" I've ever seen which works when its completely horizontal. Forces from a side or front wind are v small, but there might be a bit of wind tunnel effect underneath them, I think most of the issue is just the water forces on a bigger vessel and the fact the thing now sticks out further when its landed so slews sideways in the current / wind.

Kind of a bit typical of public procurement whallahs who have zero clue about engineering getting ripped off by some company who knows it won't work, but just keeps stum and then says I built it to your specification / requirement. Everything else is someone else's problem....

Mind you it pales into insignificance compared to this disaster....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferry_Fiasco_(Scotland)

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[GregLocock]

You obviously aren't a sailor. The windage from uprights is significant, as is the drag over flat panels. So you can stick your BS where it belongs.

And as i said in the first post "Somebody wrote a very bad spec, or somebody else didn't meet it. Or a lot of both".

The 'glee', actually tired amusement, is because this is typical of governments spending other people's money on greeny solutions.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[LittleInch]

They are still not "sails" which is what was claimed.

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Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[GregLocock]

You are the first person in this thread to mentions sails.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[TugboatEng]

Remember that the cargo likely contributes much more to the sail area in this case than the upright structure.