Solar Roadways 4

[cranky108]

Why would you think I was being anything but sarcastic? My point is think it through before you go this route. Just because you can do this, dosen't mean you should, or there won't be any unexpected problems (like hail, or UV).
Making a roadway clear so you can install solar panels, will mean changeing the surfacing materials, which is a very big issue. Placing the solar panels on the median, or side will mean they will be hit by bad drivers, and as of this time there are requirments for breakaway poles for street lights, so I would expect the same for solar poles (unless solar is exempt for regular rules).

Now one idea would be to put the panels above the street lights, on the same poles, but as that would make the whole thing more top heavy, and wind catching, a larger pole would be required. So when this whole contraption comes down on a car that has hit the pole, will it do more harm (I guess yes), and is it a hazard in it self.

Now maybe we could do something with those big clover leafs, as there is much unused space, but with the efficies in the panels, and lights, I would not expect this to be self providing requiring no energy from the grid. So I ask, why not fill these spaces with native plants that require little maintenance?

 

[moltenmetal]

cranky, if we buried them they'd be even better protected!

What this piece of idiotic fluff should teach us all is that there's an endless appetite on the part of many people for a single deus ex machine technical solution for our energy problems. Politicians are the biggest backers of this kind of magical thinking, because it will get them off the hook from doing something very hard, unpopular and politically suicidal but nonetheless necessary- making fossil energy more expensive so that we, the consumers of energy, provide an economic driving force to fund alternatives that actually make economic sense.

Regrettably, there are hordes of charlatans, or at best utterly deluded "inventors" who haven't done the math, who are eager to sell this magical snake oil to the public- either indirectly through government grants, or directly like these guys through crowdsourcing.

As P.T. Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute. And as Murphy added, there are two born to take him.

Solar pavements for walkways? Maybe, once every roof and south-facing wall (in the N hemisphere anyway) is already occupied...But roads that vehicles drive on? Seriously? What kind of idiot would you need to be to think that would EVER be a feasible solution? Take one look at a road- anywhere, any time- and you'll immediately see ten reasons why this is a complete non-starter. My dad with his gr 8 education would see immediately that this particular emperor has no clothes!

 

[TenPenny]

Solar roadways would only be useful on lightly-travelled roads; the more traffic, the more time the sun won't hit the surface of the road.

 

[cranky108]

Solar sidewalks you said? That might work as long as you don't mind rough sidewalks.

No lets start with solar carports. When they start giving these away, I'll take one.

Maybe solar garden sheds. I'll take one of these too.

How about a giant metal flower, with solar panels for leafs. We can put one in every park, and call it art.

But at some point we will have the idea of a solar highway tunnel.

 

[KENAT]

Solar sidewalks - only if they put a weight limit on people wearing Stiletto heels.

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[SomptingGuy]

Solar tunnel is easy. Use the solar panels to power big bright lights. Problem solved.

- Steve

 

[cranky108]

The problem with futurests is there ideas don't always work. The problem with gamblers is they will gamble on just about anything. When the two get togather we have these one of a kind projects that just don't quite work, and are way over budget.

The problem with solar sidewalks is that people drive on sidewalks. I'm sure there are a few applications that would work, but in general I don't see it, just like I don't see solar roadways everywhere.

I just think some people like Hype, and some people get carried away with the latest fad.

 

[beej67]

Heh.

When solar roofs become commonplace, then I will maybe entertain the idea of solar roadways.

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[cranky108]

If you have a solar roof, the fire department may choose to not put out your house fire because of concerns of being electicuted. That interesting detail might make your insurance unafforadble.
Go with the solar car port.

 

[beej67]

Okay, explain that to me. Why would a house be a higher risk for electrocution if it had solar panels on the roof? My current home does not, but it's still plumbed to 110AC, which I would think is a lot more dangerous than whatever DC trickle that comes out of a burning solar panel.

Use small words. I'm a CE, which makes me a 'conscientious objector' to Coulomb's Law.

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[moltenmetal]

cranky, where did you hear that particular piece of nonsense?

 

[TomDOT]

beej - a few items:

1) The firefighters can easily cut the mains power from the ground, unlike the solar.

2) Solar DC is typically inverted to AC, and connects to all the wiring in the house.

Not electrical, but still an issue:

3) Solar panels interfere with their ability to open up the roof and vent superheated gases. It is much safer to make an entry down below after venting. The panels both interfere with walking on the roof to get to the location they want to cut (can't support the weight of firefighter + gear, typically) and physically block them from making the cut - have to remove the panel, then hack into the roof.

 

[cranky108]

As I said, go with the solar car port.

I diden't make this up. It's been in the news (or I guess what news you look at will be different).

 

[TomDOT]

Cranky - I absolutely agree on the solar carport.

In fact, in the 3rd post in the thread, I suggested simply mounting the panels above the cars in the parking lot. Tomato/Tomahto

 

[JohnRBaker]

At the GM Tech Center in Warren, MI, in the employees partking lot, they have several of what looks like little 'car-ports' with solar panels on the roof where people who drive Chevy Volts can park and change their cars for free. Now I suspect that the solar panels on the roofs of these structures are only providing a portion of the power needed with the rest being supplied by a connection to the sites power grid, but it's a step in the right direction.

http://fastlane.gm.com/2013/06/14/gm-amps-up-workplace-solar-charging-stations/

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[rterickson]

I'm pretty sure Cranky and I get our news from different sources, but I've heard of this too.

http://ecmweb.com/fire-amp-security/solar-under-fire

 

[moltenmetal]

Wow, my apologies to cranky! But that's just plain nuts! Not designing the solar installation to be safe during fire- that's commonsense, and I'm sure NEC and CEC revisions will catch up on their respective 5 yr rev cycles- but if it came down to firefighters being too scared to enter a building for rescue because of solar panels on the roof, that's just crazy.

 

[rjoto]

Since solar panels that do everything are all the rage now, we should get some of those to put on roofs. They will be solar panels of course, strong enough for people to walk on, and textured for traction. They can melt snow on top of your roof in the winter so Santa doesn't have any issues. There will be LED lights that light up when reindeer step on them. Programmable LED designs will mean you don't have to hang Christmas lights anymore. Just pick a design and it appears on your roof! We'll put all the electronics and power cables in the gutters (the best place for electronics right?) which will also be able to filter the rainwater coming off the roof so your grass gets only the cleanest water on it. For the firefighters, we'll add the ability for the panels to cut holes in the roof with built in saws. We can put induction chargers in the panels as well so they can charge airplanes flying overhead, which will drastically reduce the need for jet fuel. Electric jets will make a comeback. I've estimated that I'll need about a million dollars to put these on my house. I'll post a link soon if you want to donate.

 

[cranky108]

It looks to me that solar is the latest fad, and now every one is trying to propose the coolest (or hotest, whatever is the latest term) ideas.

I'll just throwout the idea of solar tires, with built in batteries, and electric motor. Where each can be controled by wifi, and cars would no longer need to use any fuels.

In place of solar roads, why not go back to glow in the dark road stripes.

 

[urgross]

We installed a solar car port in 2010 for the VA in Martinsburg, WV. Biggest problem has been not enough electric vehicles to justify additional capacity. That, and while the DoE may be pushing for charging stations for prviate sector employees, government employees are not allowed to use the federal charging stations. By the time enough electrical vehicles are sold in WV, the rest of the world will be driving the hovercars that the Jetsons promised.
Going vertical would make better sense, perhaps something like the space elevator that Arthur Clarke envisioned.