What if.. solar cells

[GregLocock]

Currently solar cells cost around $4 per peak watt. 1 peak watt of cell gives you around 7 Wh per day of electricity on a good day, or 4 Wh if it is poor weather.

There are several technologies coming up in the next five years that could see solar cells dropping to around $1 per watt. In fact even now the price is driven by high unsatisfied demand rather than production costs. My house uses 1500*24 Wh per day, so I'd need 9000 peak W of cells, which is almost viable at first sight, given that my current bill is around $800 pa.

So, how would your field be affected by cheaper solar power?

Can YOU think of a good diurnal storage technology that we haven't seen yet?



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SomptingGuy]

LED lights again:

http://members.misty.com/don/lede.html

 

[GregLocock]

" Likewise, the European community that uses a large amount of nuclear power and permits their automobiles to generate much more polution than US automakers are permitted in this country, points the finger at the US as the principle player in global polution problems. "

Oh, have you got figures for the pollution emitted by European and USAn automobiles? I am intrigued by your claim.

Also, what are the relative contributions to global pollution?



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[KENAT]

Likewise, the European community that uses a large amount of nuclear power and permits their automobiles to generate much more polution than US automakers are permitted in this country

Dinosaur, I'm with Greg. I'd be interested to know on what basis you make your claim to see if I'm wrong.

Based on my limited experience I'd say the average mpg for vehicles in most of Europe is a lot higher than for the US. Less SUVs and a lot more small (sub compact) cars.

http://www.cemt.org/online/council/2000/CM0006Fe.pdf

does show slightly lower emission standards in the US from around 2005 for NOx and particulates.

I couldn’t find anything definite for comparative average mpg between the US & Europe but strongly suspect Europe is somewhat lower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles

The second link does give

The average fuel efficiency of European cars is over 40 mpg, of Japanese cars 45mpg, and North American cars 20.4 mpg

allthough it doesn’t cite a reference It sounds a reasonable estimate.

Also on the nuclear power front, yes France uses a lot but I don't think the rest of Europe is particularly high and doubt the French tip the balance that far.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_energy_policy

I suspect the % of European energy from nuclear is a little higher than the US but not by as much as you imply. Interestingly the US is the largest producer of Nuclear power though it is only around 20% of its total electrical consumption.

 

[Comcokid]

Now - a recent news article.
Boeing-Spectrolab with funding from the US Dept of Energy has created solar cells with 40.7% efficiency.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=196602149

 

[Dinosaur]

KENAT and Greg,

This is why I have the opinion that European Cars don't meet our emmision standards ...

Imported motor vehicles are subject to safety standards under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966, revised under the Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act of 1988; to bumper standards under the Motor Vehicle Information and Cost Savings Act of 1972, which became effective in 1978; and to air pollution control standards under the Clean Air Act of 1968, as amended in 1977 and 1990. Most vehicles manufactured abroad that conform with U.S. safety, bumper, and emission standards are exported expressly for sale in the United States; therefore, it is unlikely that a vehicle obtained abroad meets all relevant standards. Be skeptical of claims by a foreign dealer or other seller that a vehicle meets these standards or can readily be brought into compliance. Nonconforming vehicles entering the United States must be brought into compliance, exported, or destroyed.

Note the emissions control standards. I have been told more than a few times that you can't just drive a European car in this country because it doesn't meet out emission control standards. Once you make it meet our standards, it is essentially a US car. We have been meeting this air quality standard since the late 1960s. That's why I say I want them to come up to our standards before they have anything to say about us.

 

[KENAT]

Your statement was:

Likewise, the European community that ..... permits their automobiles to generate much more polution than US automakers are permitted in this country

For certain emmisions, as I stated in my post, the US has lower limits. However, the average european mpg is around double that of US vehicles. So for CO2 and water vapour I assume the average euro vehicle is correspondingly lower per mile. Obviously not everyone considers CO2 & water vapour pollutants but certainly reduced fuel use does have an impact on the environment.

If we could play by European rules, we would have much more nuclear power, reducing polution and the strain on global petroleum assets.

Or you could just drive vehicles with European/Japanese levels of efficiency and reduce the strain on petroleum that way.

So you feel europeans should meet your emission standards for certain specific chemicals before they say anything about you, while europeans probably feel you should meet their levels of fuel efficiency before you impune them.

 

[rb1957]

and so we have strayed from the OP to a trans-atlantic slugfest

 

[Dinosaur]

Except that I'm not impuning anyone. I'm defending the US from unwarrented character attacks.

Comparing US and European cars on MPG is once again comparing apples to oranges. The US does not have the population density of Europe and that is the basis for many differences between US and European culture. My European friends living in the US are quite happy with most things american. My British friend, in particular, is more upset with the folks who don't notice the light has changed to green. He drives a bigger car than I do though.

 

[SomptingGuy]

... maybe given the lower population density, the US could cover the spare land with solar cells. Large parts of it are unpopulated and get lots of sunlight. I would have thought that Nebraska & Colorado could power the whole country. (just trying to steer the thread back to the OP). Australia could power the whole World.

 

[GregLocock]

Dinosaur, numbers, not opinions.

Back on topic.

There are various proposals for photoelectric power stations. At the moment they are a pretty expensive option, something like 4 times as expensive per kWh as coal powered stations. But, if the price of cells drops, that suddenly looks like a good idea. Somebody has conned the Victrian government into subsidising a fairly large PV station.

Here's another one. The peak load on the electricity grid is typically on hot afternoons when everybody switches their A/C on. So, if cells dropped a fair bit in price, why not power A/C from local solar cells? When the sun is shining is when you need the AC. Peak load electricity is the most expensive, and is typically from gas turbines, so even though this is not a great way of using the cells (much better to install a proper domestic PV plant) it may be more cost effective.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.