I think that i speak for many users of the software when i say SW needs to print a comprehensive manual for 2004 with all commands, not a dinky Whats New short story. I think that this is needed because the software has and is becoming complicated and you cannot always reference the online help and see a full screen while working. Plus it's not like we are paying chump change for subscription service.
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Solidworks Needs to Print Full Manuals Again!!
- Thread starter Rocko
- Start date
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95 to 96 or 7 but then that's when they stopped printing them for customer use. If the customer takes the training which is better than just getting the books, they get the book for free. Having the training makes it easier for VAR's when they try to explain something. Not having the training may or will result in longer times on the phone...and since time is money, that will save everyone time & money if the user takes the training.
I also don't think it would be cost effective for SW to print all those manuals for every seat of SW in the world. That would be alot of cash going out on manuals for all users of SW. On top of that once a user goes through that book he or she will probably never have to get it out again, and only have it for reference. Which is what you have the book for once you have completed the training. Might as well take the time and pay the cash to get the training, because your only make things better and easier for yourself.
Your Subscription money goes to more than what you think. That money pays for a lot of stuff...IMO. It pays for New releases, SP's, over the phone support, new enhancements, Enhancement requests...There are other areas that I can't think of right now. It's getting to be that time of the day![[sleeping]](/data/assets/smilies/sleeping.gif "[sleeping] [sleeping]")
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I believe your money is hard at work, and from what I've seen of SW04 you will agree when you see it. I hope it helps some of you that are suffering from Stability issues. I myself have found SW03 to be fine as well as SW04.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP![[wiggle]](/data/assets/smilies/wiggle.gif "[wiggle] [wiggle]")
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3DVision Technologies
faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help
I also don't think it would be cost effective for SW to print all those manuals for every seat of SW in the world. That would be alot of cash going out on manuals for all users of SW. On top of that once a user goes through that book he or she will probably never have to get it out again, and only have it for reference. Which is what you have the book for once you have completed the training. Might as well take the time and pay the cash to get the training, because your only make things better and easier for yourself.
Your Subscription money goes to more than what you think. That money pays for a lot of stuff...IMO. It pays for New releases, SP's, over the phone support, new enhancements, Enhancement requests...There are other areas that I can't think of right now. It's getting to be that time of the day
.I believe your money is hard at work, and from what I've seen of SW04 you will agree when you see it. I hope it helps some of you that are suffering from Stability issues. I myself have found SW03 to be fine as well as SW04.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help
I have to disagree Scott. The absence of a decent manual is not very professional of a company that charges more then $4000 for their product and than an annual 1200 or so.
Imagine Ford saying, after you buy the car, we will show you how to use your car for a 1000 training fee. That would be laughable.
I am not saying training should not be an option. However, the deliberate lack of a comprehensive manual/reference book to compel people to take training is underhanded.
Anyways, once the user base is large enough, 3rd party publishers will pick up the slack.
Imagine Ford saying, after you buy the car, we will show you how to use your car for a 1000 training fee. That would be laughable.
I am not saying training should not be an option. However, the deliberate lack of a comprehensive manual/reference book to compel people to take training is underhanded.
Anyways, once the user base is large enough, 3rd party publishers will pick up the slack.
Would be a good compromise.
However, when I use AutoCad 2002 I have a nice printed manual. When I use Visual Basic I have many nice printed manuals, from Msoft even. When I play a 20 dollar game it has a manual... printed even.
However if it would prevent subscription costs from going up $60 dollars a year then I would take a PDF. Would be really useful if the PDF's had hyperlinks to Ed Eaton's surfacing presentations too.
However, when I use AutoCad 2002 I have a nice printed manual. When I use Visual Basic I have many nice printed manuals, from Msoft even. When I play a 20 dollar game it has a manual... printed even.
However if it would prevent subscription costs from going up $60 dollars a year then I would take a PDF. Would be really useful if the PDF's had hyperlinks to Ed Eaton's surfacing presentations too.
- Thread starter
- #8
The reason for my posts is that the manual/help needs to be done differently. The cost to produce and manufacuterer a manual would be approximately $25-$30 for 800pages. (a friend use to work for a publishing company thats how i came up with the figure). Heck look at third party books like Inside Solidworks 2003 $56.00 858 pages long. If a third party can produce a book and retail for that with middle men involved, solidworks can inexpensively. This also would make SW really look at their own commands and functions and think them through from a users standpoint also.
So all of you are saying SW should send out all 10+ books to all customers for each new version and user of SW? (A pdf file would be different)
After everyone goes through all those books, they will sit on the shelf and collect dust, because after that you will really only need is the What's new manual. Because you will have the basic knowledge and understanding of SW all you need to know is how SW has changed, modified and or improved something about the program. Then all that money that was used to make and send those books to all the customers for every version of every user would be wasted.
I'm not defending SW, I can just see it from their perspective. Since after all when I first started using SW they sent me the manuals and they just sat that after I went through them. They collected dust and all I ever read after that was What's New, and I still only read the what's new. Having the books for a reference is nice on occasion, but they collect more dust than I do reading them.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help
After everyone goes through all those books, they will sit on the shelf and collect dust, because after that you will really only need is the What's new manual. Because you will have the basic knowledge and understanding of SW all you need to know is how SW has changed, modified and or improved something about the program. Then all that money that was used to make and send those books to all the customers for every version of every user would be wasted.
I'm not defending SW, I can just see it from their perspective. Since after all when I first started using SW they sent me the manuals and they just sat that after I went through them. They collected dust and all I ever read after that was What's New, and I still only read the what's new. Having the books for a reference is nice on occasion, but they collect more dust than I do reading them.
Regards,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help
- Thread starter
- #10
Perhaps, SW should let the users decide if they want a manual or not? Then they could send them to those that do. It's a pain in the rear to print 800pgs on a inkjet printer and doing it on both sides of the paper or it would balloon up to 1600pgs . Plus it would cost about $60-$70 in ink cartridges to do it. I think they could print up pages that would fit in a nice 3 ring binder with pad printed SW and Version and provide the pages that way. Then send out replacement pages or additional pages on new features to put in the binder. So initially yes they would have to send one to everyone that buys a new seat or is on subscription, but after that only send out update pages and a new binder for a new version. I think this would be a great compromise for all and would cut their costs significantly.
I think I'd rather have them direct thier energy to releasing bug-free sotfware over printed manuals. I've looked at some of the other 2nd-source books on SolidWorks... they are no better or worse than the manuals we used to get from SW.
MadMango
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Scott,
All my books collect dust. It doesn't mean I never read any of them. But when I use them they are invaluable.
I have a much easier time reading out of a book then I do off the screen. Am I the only one?
I completely agree that there should be a printed manual or several printed manuals. It is the software companies responsibility to provide this and somehow we as consumers have let many a software company get away with stiffing us.
This never happened when the PC first entered the market. Does anyone remember the detailed, spiral bound manuals for DOS from companies like DEC or IBM. But at somepoint the software companies decided/knew that consumers would still by there stuff regardless, so they just said to hell with the customer. Very bad in my opinion. Especially for the 5K type programs. By the way, Mathematica and a few other decent software companies still provide extremely useful manuals.
All my books collect dust. It doesn't mean I never read any of them. But when I use them they are invaluable.
I have a much easier time reading out of a book then I do off the screen. Am I the only one?
I completely agree that there should be a printed manual or several printed manuals. It is the software companies responsibility to provide this and somehow we as consumers have let many a software company get away with stiffing us.
This never happened when the PC first entered the market. Does anyone remember the detailed, spiral bound manuals for DOS from companies like DEC or IBM. But at somepoint the software companies decided/knew that consumers would still by there stuff regardless, so they just said to hell with the customer. Very bad in my opinion. Especially for the 5K type programs. By the way, Mathematica and a few other decent software companies still provide extremely useful manuals.
lmcchesney
Mechanical
I still have and use my SW99 User's Guide. The pages are dog eared w/ lots of notes in the margin. However, four releases later, it's loosing it's relevance. I like manuals much better than trying to navigate the help file or my stack of four "What's New" books. A comprehensive user's guide should be available with each new release. If they want to charge for it, I'll gladly pay.
We could debate this all day long, but as it is now SW is not going to be printing any manuals in the near future.
All of you that want these manauls printed are going to probably have to send in an Enhancement request.
I'm not saying that any of you are wrong in wanting manuals. I'm just saying they are not going give them away as it stands now. You will have to just break down and go to the training to get the books. IMO those that go, will benefit from the training then you will following a manual between jobs, teaching yourself. Yes I taught myself but only because I had a boss that wouldn't send us to any form of training. I would have learned more faster if I would have taken the training.
My last .02 worth...for now,
Best Regards to all,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help
All of you that want these manauls printed are going to probably have to send in an Enhancement request.
I'm not saying that any of you are wrong in wanting manuals. I'm just saying they are not going give them away as it stands now. You will have to just break down and go to the training to get the books. IMO those that go, will benefit from the training then you will following a manual between jobs, teaching yourself. Yes I taught myself but only because I had a boss that wouldn't send us to any form of training. I would have learned more faster if I would have taken the training.
My last .02 worth...for now,
Best Regards to all,
Scott Baugh, CSWP
3DVision Technologies
faq731-376
When in doubt, always check the help
I agree the training to get a manual is a good route for NEW USERS...
But what about existing users? It would be nice to have a comprehensive manual handy instead of referring to all the What's New along with the original old worn-out manual. Existing users don't always need the training, yet want an updated manual.
But what about existing users? It would be nice to have a comprehensive manual handy instead of referring to all the What's New along with the original old worn-out manual. Existing users don't always need the training, yet want an updated manual.
- Thread starter
- #17
Theophilus
Mechanical
$0.02--
Allow the option for the full manual when a new seat is purchased. After that, the "What's New" manuals will fill-in the gaps.
My experience was great with the SW 97 full manual--I really didn't even need to be near the computer to start learning some of the concepts. I took the advanced training back then and it did help in some of the less-known/used features. Since then, the "What's New" materials seem to do the trick.
Jeff Mowry
DesignHaus Industrial Design
Allow the option for the full manual when a new seat is purchased. After that, the "What's New" manuals will fill-in the gaps.
My experience was great with the SW 97 full manual--I really didn't even need to be near the computer to start learning some of the concepts. I took the advanced training back then and it did help in some of the less-known/used features. Since then, the "What's New" materials seem to do the trick.
Jeff Mowry
DesignHaus Industrial Design
StarrRider
Mechanical
Rocko
I have to agree – with both sides on this issue. I agree that there is a need for a comprehensive manual. I can also see that cost is the primary problem here. When 2001 or 2001+ came out – somewhere in the package was a small note stating that I could get a new Getting Started manual by making a call and requesting it. I did and read it as a refresher.
The reason that I would like to have comprehensive manual is that SW has gotten larger and there are parts of it that I have not ever touched on. Granted – most of that may be Swoopy Stuff – but sometimes a fast refresher in something that is rarely done is needed. A few months ago I had to make a sheet metal transition from a cylinder to a hex shape. That is fairly simple and easy - right? I’ve done this before – but that was a couple of years ago and I couldn’t make it work. I ended up spending 4 or 5 hours before I started searching for an example.
I don’t have to make molds very often – maybe once or twice a year. It would be nice to be able to grab a book and go to a coffee shop to read it before I spend a couple of weeks and a lot of money creating something that doesn’t work.
Lee
Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.
I have to agree – with both sides on this issue. I agree that there is a need for a comprehensive manual. I can also see that cost is the primary problem here. When 2001 or 2001+ came out – somewhere in the package was a small note stating that I could get a new Getting Started manual by making a call and requesting it. I did and read it as a refresher.
The reason that I would like to have comprehensive manual is that SW has gotten larger and there are parts of it that I have not ever touched on. Granted – most of that may be Swoopy Stuff – but sometimes a fast refresher in something that is rarely done is needed. A few months ago I had to make a sheet metal transition from a cylinder to a hex shape. That is fairly simple and easy - right? I’ve done this before – but that was a couple of years ago and I couldn’t make it work. I ended up spending 4 or 5 hours before I started searching for an example.
I don’t have to make molds very often – maybe once or twice a year. It would be nice to be able to grab a book and go to a coffee shop to read it before I spend a couple of weeks and a lot of money creating something that doesn’t work.
Lee
Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.
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