Sprinkler Protection of cartoned plastic quarts of Class IIIB on pallets, piled

[arbitrader]

I am working with a Fire Sprinkler Company that is indicating that we should use NFPA 30 Table 16.5.2.9 for wood pallet on floor stacked storage of cartoned plastic quarts of Class IIIB combustible liquids.

I have maintained that NFPA 30 only lists rack storage with in-rack sprinklers (and ceiling sprinklers) per Table 16.5.2.5, and is silent on palletized and stacked storage of the above.

Their logic for Table 16.5.2.9 is that while it is for Class II or III liquids in Nonmetallic IBCs, absent other guidance, (since the plastic quarts are non-metallic), this is the design basis they will use. This doesn't make sense, Chapter 16.5.2.9 specifically states this table applies to non-metallic intermediate bulk containers. In addition the densities are based upon IBC storage heights; stacked 1 high at 0.46gpm/sf density or 2 high at 0.60 gpm/sf density, not stacked pallets of cartoned plastic combustible liquid containers.

I referred them to FM 7-29 Table 17 as an alternate which results in a much lower water demand which I want them to use for the design..

Their logic is illogical to me. Your professional comments are appreciated.

 

[TravisMack]

What is your role in the project? You can't just pick and choose things from FM criteria. You have to use the entire data sheet. This may or may not have other implications.

While I haven't been in NFPA 30 for awhile, the title of Table 16.5.2.9 is Design Criteria of Palletized Storage of Class II and III liquids in Listed and Labeled Rigid Nonmetallic IBCs. Isn't this what you state you have?

Why are you even mentioning 16.5.2.5? That is for rack storage, you state you don't have rack storage? 16.5.2 lists several different sections based on what the storage configuration is.16.5.2.9 seems like it ticks all of the boxes you describe.

If you are the professional of record and willing to take on 100% of the professional liability for your design concepts and they can be accepted by the AHJ, then by all means feel free to press the issue. If you are not the design professional with all of the liability, then you should defer to what is being provided as a design concept, provided it meets the minimum requirements of the standards.

Travis Mack, SET, CWBSP, RME-G, CFPS
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[arbitrader]

TravisMack,

Thanks for the response. No I am not the Engineer of Record, I am the Plant Engineer evaluating design basis with the Sprinkler Design firm to ensure that we get a code compliant system.

No, we are not storing non-metallic IBCs. My question is in regards to 6 pack plastic quarts of Class IIIB in cardboard cartons. We do in fact have some rack storage for which Table 16.5.2.5 will govern. However, we also want to store same on pallets stacked on floor.

I just want to know if anyone concurs with our FP Designer's assertion that Table 16.5.2.9 could in any way be applicable to 6 pack plastic quarts of Class IIIB pallet stacked. (My opinion is no, but I want to defer to more others with more experience than I)

Also, when you say "you can't pick and choose", do you mean that once you elect to use the FM Global Data sheet then all other fire protection measures in our warehouse (such as rack storage of Class IIIB liquids in metal containers, plastic containers, etc.) must also use FM-7-29, or do you mean that all applicable provisions of Table 17 must be followed. In other words, is it OK to use NFPA 30 for design of in-rack sprinklers, but FM-7-29 for our stacked pallet storage described above within the same warehouse?

 

[TravisMack]

I mean you must use all of the FM Data sheets applicable. You can't just pick a density you want. Those data sheets are based on using FM approved products and in conjunction with the other data sheets as applicable.

Are you using FM approved products in your sprinkler system? If no, then you are picking an choosing to use sections of the FM Data sheet. The data sheet likely references FM 2-00. This is basically FM equivalent to NFPA 13. Do you meet all of those criteria. If you are not going to meet all of the requirements of the data sheet, then I don't believe it is applicable.

If you don't have metal containers, then by sheer definition, you have non-metallic containers.

Since you don't believe your hired professional, you should hire another Fire Protection Engineer to analyze your product and specify the criteria. Let the FPE take on the liability. The costs of hiring them may save you some fees, or you may find that they believe the original design proposed.

Travis Mack, SET, CWBSP, RME-G, CFPS
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[arbitrader]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[stookeyfpe]

No viable sprinkler design criterion exist in the 2015 edition of NFPA 30 Chapter 16 for palletized storage of Class IIIB liquids. Whomever is interpreting NFPA 30 Table 16.5.2.9 doesn't understand the hazard and has probably never reviewed the fire test data. NFPA 30 does allow the storage to be unprotected (see NFPA 30 Table 12.6.2.2) - that would require the approval of the applicable regulatory authorities.

FM 7-29 does offer automatic sprinkler design criteria specific for your commodity but as Travis indicated, you must use all of the applicable FM design criteria. As an AHJ, our office doesn't allow cherry-picking between FM or GE GAP requirements and combining it with NFPA 13.