Standard for Identifying/Marking Bar Stock in Machine Shop 4

[JobShopEngineer]

I've been looking around, with no success, for a published standard or at least an industry accepted standard for identifying bar stock. I worked in a two man tool and die shop in high school where the amount of bar stock we went through was so low that it could easily be tracked by simple segregation on a shelving unit. Now, I'm three months out of college and one month into my career at a job shop, where the amount of bar stock we process is quite large. There current system now is, there is no system. I was originally tasked with building a storage rack for the round bar stock coming in the door, then the project expanded from there. Now it is to reorganize/reinvent the entire bar stock storage system.

Back to my original question though...are there standards out there for marking bar stock (specifically round) with paint or marker?

Thank you for any help that is offered up. I'm so glad I found this website a month into my new job, there is a wealth of knowledge here.

- JobShopEngineer

 

[MikeHalloran]

Search on "steel color code chart".

Ryerson used to be the standard, at least as far as I was concerned, but as part of a demarketing campaign, they no longer give away their stocklist or tech reference. They probably wonder why nobody calls anymore...

Best answer is to use whatever color code your normal bar supplier uses, so you don't have to paint incoming bars. Your job now is to produce a nice big wall chart, and stock a bucket of paint markers right below it, and do the same thing wherever bars are cut.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[JobShopEngineer]

The problem with the bar stock, and I forgot to mention this, is that it's received in longer lengths (12', 20', etc.) and cut into 3' lengths upon entering the plant. Therefore I need to implement a system where all the new 3' lengths are marked upon coming off the saw.

We do have a sign in the shop with the color/shape indications for the different types of steels we receive, which I asked some people about. One person responded with a self-fellating gesture, meaning it's widely ignored. Because I am slightly colorblind, as is 8% of the male population, and our shop is overwhelmingly male, I was concerned about a color system being a problem. I know for a fact that proposing a periodic color-blindness test for the employees in shipping and receiving would be out of the question.

I've given some thought to permanently marking the ends with a Dremel or scribe, but this seems very labor intensive.

I imagine I'll try to re-implement the color/shape system, as it seems like the most viable and cost effective option at this point. I'm sure the sign on the wall came from a supplier, but I don't like to ASSuME, so I'll dig deeper into that topic.

My boss actually has a couple Ryerson books and I was going to look into finding some similar reference material, but it sounds like that may be a dead end.

Thank you very much for your help, if you have any more insight to offer up still I'd greatly appreciate it.

- JobShopEngineer

 

[MikeHalloran]

Consider having the bar supplier cut the bars to length and mark them before delivery.

Mention that idea in the presence of the current saw- to- length staff, and they may start marking short bars without further incentive.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[JobShopEngineer]

Did you mean mention the Dremel/scribe idea in front of the saw-to-length staff in order for them to pick back up on the paint identification scheme? If so, I laughed out loud at that.

I can bring up getting the bar stock in 3' lengths when it arrives, but only being here a month sort of limits the amount of opinions I'm allowed to have to zero.

This is what I've gained out of this: There is no set standard for this sort of thing. I'm on my own. Try to use the suppliers system. God Speed.

Thanks again for your help, I greatly appreciate it.

- JobShopEngineer

 

[MikeHalloran]

No, I mean mention having the supplier cut to length and paint the bars offsite, >thereby exterminating at least one job in your plant<.

You don't need to propose it to management.
Just mention in front of the workers and see what happens.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[ornerynorsk]

How many varieties are you looking at having to identify? I personally hate the color code system, because every distributor and mill has their own scheme. The color combinations get pretty complex once you get into the alloys and other variants. Also, what diameter range? Are the bars large enough where they can be stamped with a simple steel number/letter stamp?

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[JobShopEngineer]

As far as diameters, we're going from 1/8" all the way up to 3". Judging by the current, not used anymore, sign out in the shop, there are 18 different designations. I'm not sure how many we still process on a regular basis. It looks like between 9-11 different mild steels; 6061 and 2024 aluminum; 303/4, 316, 316L, and 410 stainless.

The steel number/letter stamp is something I never thought of; the guy marking could run down the line real quick with something like that for the bigger stuff. I imagine anything under 1" diameter would be hard to stamp. The diameters I'm looking at fall 50/50 above and below that 1" line.

R. J. Hughes
versafab.com
New Kensington, PA, USA

 

[1gibson]

Small sizes, use a punch and # of "dots" for numbering. Larger sizes, number and/or letter stamps. It can become "un-fast" pretty quick if you want someone to put multiple digits (using different stamps) on there, so use all letters or letters after you run through 0-9.

Don't overlook stencils and spray paint.

 

[ornerynorsk]

A segregated bin or tray system can work, if everyone in the shop has the discipline to return material to the exact same spot each time after they lop off a piece. (bins labeled, of course!)

What I've been seeing with MRO companies of late in stocks of threaded rod, dowels, etc, is a laser printed polyester label that is durable enough to be somewhat shop-proof, and this is simply wrapped around the stock and adhered to itself to form a "flag" on the end of the stock.

There really is no perfect system. I suspect you'll come up with something that makes the most sense and best fits your shop need.

Ryerson color code scan attached, from my "new" (1991) stocklist. You can easily see why color coding does also not work well with smaller stock.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[MikeHalloran]

I like the steel stamp for its durability.
Maybe you could have a few made up with alloy and temper designations, one hit per bar instead of fumbling with a pile of alphabet and number stamps (which inevitably get lost).





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[Mechomatic]

I'm also a fresh-off-the-books guy and I have quickly found that, at least in a smallish company, the "right" way to do things is fairly subjective and depends as much on the guys physically doing the work as it does on what might be the fastest/cheapest/best way. I like the ink stamping method for your project, personally. I would imagine having stamps small enough that they could be "wrapped" vertically onto the smallest stock would work fine, and really ought to be big enough to be found and read on your larger stock- especially if you establish that it's always stamped at the end of the cut bar and people don't have to go searching the whole surface of the 3" diameter bar for a stamp that's 1/4" tall x 2" long.

 

[dhengr]

With today’s stamping and labeling equipment, or bar-code equip. for that matter; the shop order shows you are going to be cutting 600 pieces out of that batch of raw material. Print 620 labels and send them out with the work order paperwork. And, a color printer will even put a colored bar/shape on the label if you wish. You Mech. guys will know this better than I do, but isn’t there a paint/ink marker/printer system which operates much like an ink-jet printer, for marking parts with a printed paint stamp of a limited size, made up of closely spaced dots?

 

[btrueblood]

I have a tech. who always cuts his workpiece from the marked end of the bar.... Lots of pieces of unidentifiable bar stock now lie on our R+D stock shelf.

 

[JobShopEngineer]

My first step is going to be to re-identify how many types of material we see coming in through the door. Since some of them are smaller diameters (1/8") I can't see a steel stamp working out in that situation, although I like the idea. And I don't want to create two systems, one stamp and one color, for this. Durability of a label on the bar stock isn't a huge concern because the bar stock, once cut, simply sits in a rack until an operator pulls it out to place in the bar feeder of his machine. But I don't want an operator wasting set-up time to take off 20 labels before he can start making chips.

We are a smaller shop, and I'm quickly realizing that if you can't get the guys on the floor behind your idea, it doesn't matter how great it is. It will fail.

I'll look into the printer, it seems like a relatively large start up cost and training (compared to paint or steel stamps), but I will look into it.

This identification scheme problem piggy backed in on the original problem, not having a proper storage space for the 3' bar stocks we cut when the material comes in the through the door. The 3' lengths are largely for the bar feeders in the CNC machines. The rack I'm designing will be marked with what diameter and material type goes in each pigeon hole, but I'm trying to give the floor guys as little excuse as possible when they store stuff in the wrong spot. I also want to keep from unmarked bars being laid down somewhere, forgotten for a little, then rediscovered only to find that we forgot what type of material it is.

Whatever system I implement isn't going to be perfect, but so seems the name of the game. We just need A system, because NO system is scaring me. The floor guys are pretty good about storing the material now in like-material bundles and knowing what's where, but it shouldn't be tribal knowledge. It should be blatantly clear what's what and where it's at.

R. J. Hughes
versafab.com
New Kensington, PA, USA

 

[JobShopEngineer]

ornerynorsk ...wow. And I thought this was bad...

(See attached)

This is the system we currently have, I know some of those materials aren't currently being used, and I don't know where we got this system from. ...there aren't enough hours in the day.

R. J. Hughes
versafab.com
New Kensington, PA, USA

 

[MikeHalloran]

Can you get bar feeders that will accept a 21 foot bar?

You're basically wasting money to cut long bars into short bars, not to mention increasing your cutoff waste by X7-ish over what it could be.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[JobShopEngineer]

I haven't looked into longer bar feeders. I know most of the machines are equipped with the 3' bar feeders. Changing the bar feeders to accept 21' seems like I'm enlarging the scope a little too much for this particular project. The goal, now, is to overhaul the material storage and identification procedure/system in order to clean up the shop and make it more efficient. Changing the hole machining center cells around might be biting off more than I can chew, but I appreciate the suggestion.

R. J. Hughes
versafab.com
New Kensington, PA, USA

 

[MintJulep]

Paint cans means that you will have open paint cans always (because they won't want to open and close them) which in turn means you will have paint spills always.

Spray paint nozzles always clog.

Electrical tape comes in a rainbow of colors. Can be applied and torn easily, is durable, comes off easily generally without leaving residue.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Long barfeeders (longest I've seen is 14 foot) open up a whole new realm of problems. Air tube feeders gallop like a vibrating carnival ride, driving everyone in the shop crazy, and hydrodynamics that large will require a very fat wallet.

Your accuracy and surface finishes are generally better with a shorter barfeed. It's a tradeoff between the extra sawing labor and the extra end drops, and the inherant benefits of running less mass through the spindle and holding it in place with your collet or chuck.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.