symbolic thread feature in modeling (a rant)

[MAylward]

This something that needs to be fixed. Using NX4 I had alot of holes with threads attatched to them. When I had to edit the extrude that those holes are dependent on I had to reattach the holes to the edited surface. That's all nice and clean but the 144 symbolic thread feature doesn't recognise that it's the same hole and there is no way to edit the thread. THERE IS NO WAY TO REATTACH THREADS AT ALL. I haven't used 7 yet but I know it's the same way in 6. Is it really that difficult to add this? You can do it with just about any feature that requires a surface as a reference. Has anybody found a way to do it? Sorry but it really irkes me that I have to go back and reselect 144 holes and redefine the treads.

 

[JohnRBaker]

When working in NX 6.0, are you updating a model created in NX 4.0 with its 144 Holes AND its 144 separate Symbolic Thread Features? Or are you updating a model created in NX 6.0 with its 144 Threaded Holes created using the NEW Hole Feature?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MAylward]

Today I am using 4 with a model created in 4 using a simple hole feature instanced in the pattern needed with threads added.
I am currently the only one in our company that has used 6 at all. I use Mold Wizard and subtract bodies for threads and I should be able to reattach the threads if something changes instead of deleting the thread and redoing it. I'm just looking for some way to reattach a thread at all. The threaded hole feature I don't think I have a problem with since it's embedded one feature. Thanks for replying to my rant.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Well, if the new Threaded Hole feature works, your 'rant' is for naught since we have already provided a solution. The fact that the rest of your company (all but I guess you) are still using NX 4.0 is NOT our problem. Sorry about being so blunt, but that's reality.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MAylward]

So then explain to me how I can reattach a thread to a subtracted body? So what if for some reason I hadn't used the threaded hole feature. What if I had to use the thread feature on an unparametized body? My rant is because I want to reattach a thread.
Regardless if it's in 6 or higher there are times when a thread feature needs to be added other than the threaded hole command and it may need to be reattached to the parent face. That's reality.
Is there some way to do this?

 

[JohnRBaker]

That was a weakness that has been known for some time, and our response was to replace the feature with the poor behavior with ones that behaved better. That WAS our solution. We are not going to 'fix' something which has basically been obsoleted. As for what to do when needing to 'add' a thread to an existing hole, our recommendation it to delete the original hole (and there are several ways to do that even with a non-parametric model) and then add a new threaded hole feature.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MAylward]

So no there's not. I then assume that the single thread command will be removed at some higher version.
I know you can't please everyone and this was the best compromise.
This leads me to another question then. How easy is it to add updatable thread information to a subtract body similar to the auto screw in mold wizard?

 

[JohnRBaker]

I'm not familiar with Mold Wizard. As for removing the old symbolic thread, perhaps someday, but not in any planned release that I'm aware of.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MAylward]

Sorry. Mold Wizard uses Knowledge Fusion for the auto screws. Based on expressions for the screw diameter and tap drill it will determine thread length and size.
Can this be added easily?

 

[JohnRBaker]

Could you please attach a simple example of what you're attempting to do with your NX 4.0 method of creating and updating a symbolic thread? I would prefer that it not be something created inside of Mold Wizard, but rather a normal NX part which exhibits the behavior problems you're talking about.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[hudson888]

John,

I noted the other day that the threaded holes in the so called new hole feature introduced in NX-5, as of NX-7 still don't support any non-standard pitches, or different thread types (i.e Unified in a Metric part). Perhaps that is something to be addressed before too long.

With the older threaded hole feature I know you can edit the tables of threads so that if you really wanted to I suppose you could even add Whitworth for yourself. You can also specify an M24 X 0.5 pitch for a camera lens on the fly.

Point being thet if the intent is be to supplant the older threading method with something newer and more capable then at present it is still only halfway there.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[JohnRBaker]

I have NO problem whatsoever putting a Unified threaded hole in the Metric part, or visa-versa, using the new Hole Feature. And the new Hole Feature is also table driven (there's just a lot more stuff now).

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[hudson888]

Thanks John,

I must admit that I hadn't found it, but when you replied I looked harder and behold it turns up under settings, where frankly I hadn't expected it to be. Sadly, and again correct me if I'm wrong, there is no custom option that I needed for those camera threads.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[atmbob]

Behold the mold designers. Yes, I suppose we have even more ways to put in threads that fail than others. That's probably the source of MAylward's rant.
John, maybe one improvement that I'm sure would get MAylward's vote would be once you've selected (or reselected) 144 holes to add a thread to and then made one, and only one, "OK" or "Apply" click, if the hole diameter, for whatever reason, does not match exactly the prescribed size necessary for whatever percentage of thread, why instead of 144 singular "OK" clicks could there not be an "OK all" button to select as well?
Using NX5 myself. If NX6 and 7 make improvements to threads I'd hope they find their way into the Mold Wizard environment. That would be a great show of support!
MAylward, do you do all of your MW screw holes WITH THREADS through the pocketing tool (e.g., drill and c'bore one plate, clearance drill thru the next plate, tap drill and thread the next plate, all at one time)?

Bob

 

[potrero]

Not that this is totally ideal, but a possible way to replace "dumb" holes in a non parametrized solid with new Hole Feature holes is to (1) use Synchronous Modeling tools to resize the old holes, making them smaller, while still keeping the circular edge as a reference, and then (2) apply new Hole features, using the old, now smaller holes' edges to find the new Hole centers. Not a complete solution, but perhaps this will give you an idea.

 

[JohnRBaker]

There are no planned improvements for the 'Symbolic Thread' feature. The go forward solution is to use the new Threaded Holes feature. BTW, if you make a sketch representing the locations of the 144 threaded holes as Points, you can add all 144 threaded holes in a single operation, and the the side benifit that if you add or remove any of the points in the original sketch that the threaded holes will all update accordingly. Note that the only restriction is that all of the holes inserted using a single sketch of points must all be the same sise and depth, but it does work.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[hudson888]

I'd add that if you have 144 holes in a linked body that doesn't carry the symbolic threads then you can granted that you could be bothered picking them at all add symbolic threads to all of them in one operation (presuming of course that they have equal depths). The fact that the system may warn you about the tapping hole size is seriously no big deal as it is only ever a warning.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[MAylward]

ATBOB,
For the most part I'll use the pocket tool with threads unless it's a non-mold wizard assebly or I've added screws that aren't in mold-wizard. Let me be more specific about my gripe.
It's not that I've got all those holes to re-tap it's that there is no way to re-pick the faces at all. In a feature or feature detail(like blend or pocket) you can go into the dialog and repick the surface or edge that you want. With threads there was never and still is no option to repick the surface you want the thread on. Can the command be improved? Sure but I'm only looking for something that is already included with a few commands already.

Mike