tank to tank transfer

[cams1975]

Hi

I have an application where i wish to transfer stored rain water from an under ground tank to another tank up hill.

Static lift = 10 meters
pipe length = 140 meters
Pipe = 1 " diameter.

How do i determin the flow rate for the pump?
The tank at the top of the hill is to store water to feed cattle.

Do i just select a pump and work out the friction loss at max flow?

or is there something else i should consider.

thanks

 

[zdas04]

That kind of problem is indeterminate without another fixed point. Generally I look at a max pipe velocity around 5 ft/s and size the pump to deliver that flow rate.

You could also approach it from dialy demand at the top, delivered in something less than a full day (e.g., you need 300 gallons/day to meet demand, I'd size the pump for 600 gal/day if the pipe velocity would support that).

David

 

[cams1975]

thanks

i will base the flow on a fluid velocity suitable for the pipe size

 

[itsmoked]

A lot of variables. You should start by reasoning out how fast you absolutely need to get that water up there.

I could see a month being reasonable but other constraints might require much shorter times. There will be a large price difference based on fast verses slow.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[Artisi]

Flow rate is soley your decision, do you want 10 gal/day or 10 gals/minute. Once flow rate is set you can then calculate the other information.

 

[mayt4u]

Have to do this in the old pfs method. Hp to raise the water 10 M (33ft) hp=g/m (15) X (Total head in feet(33')plus (19.5'/100'(loss)))all over 3960 comes out be just a little over 1/2 a hp.

This will give you 15 gallons a minute, 900 gals/hour. One of those little jet pumps you get at the hardware store should do. Add a little float system at the top and you won't have to climb the hill to check the level.

could be worse!! Could be me.

 

[BigInch]

The cows have nothing to say about it???

Dry cows drink an average of 9 gal/day, dairy cows about 15, so that's 0.375 to 0.625 gph/head. Head here baring the dimensional unit of "animal" rather than "feet", which in this case might have a value of 4.

Since they tend to all drink more or less at the same time. as I recall and maybe they have a drink leaving the pen in the morning and returning at night, we'll divide those rates by 2 and I'm willing to give them 30 minutes at the pub each way, so

The flowrate you want depends on the number of animals you need to water and how long you have to do it, so let's hope the 1" diameter is enough.

Y axis Unit is GPH

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Artisi]

BigInch- good reply, so now the OP just needs to advise how many cows together with the watering frequency and we can give some idea on the total pump head involved and the amount of power required to deliver X flow thru a 1" pipeline at peak demand to maintain a constant level in the drinking trough.

 

[BigInch]

That's the minimum size tank option. That's at about 20ºC. Cows drink a little more in both cooler and hotter weather, but we could also maybe assume there could be more time made available for the cows to have their drinks on hot or cold days.

You could go the largest tank route and pump at the average flowrate all day and night to equal the volume X head need for a day, but that requires the biggest tank.

So, a compromise between those two will provide the optimum solution.


**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[cams1975]

thanks for the input,
as usual good informative posts

 

[racookpe1978]

Well, any optimum solution has to buy in economics as well, or he might as well tank you for knot measuring the cows in terms of meters/head as this tail gets longer - And good Lord, how many more bad puns could we throw in ????

-- Availability of the pump and motor combination, plus that of the pipe size, will drive a lot of the size questions, won't they?

Cheaper pipe (with a smaller diameter) will yield a less expensive total installation if the (smaller) pump isn't running through tens of thousands of extra KW every day fighting the extra head: So I'd check a 1-1/2 inch, 2 inch, 2-1/2 inch, and 3 inch dia solution: and probably find that while the overall power goes down only slightly as pipe diameter increases, the total price goes up significantly with the larger pipes.

So he'd want the least expensive suction dia (while still getting a low enough suction resistance "up" from the underground tank, and the smallest practical discharge diameter over the relatively small distance to the storage tank? Seems a suction flapper-type valve would also be needed to keep water in the line up to the pump - though freeze protection in the exposed pipe begins to be a quandry in winter.