What is the extent of technical knowledge that project managers need to possess. Can someone with 2-3 years of experience get a Project Management Certification and become a Project Manager. I know of people in the IT industry who with 2 yrs of experience, do in for a PM certification and get high paying jobs in the area of Project Management. My background is Civil Engineering, and I feel stuck. I feel as if I will have to spend years gaining technically advanced before I can get anywhere. Is this true?
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Technical Knowledge 10
- Thread starter Moonstone
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lonecrusader
Mechanical
Hi guys,
This thread is a great place to know what most of us think of project management and extent of technical skills required to perform well in a role of project manager/leader.
What I am thinking about is, if one wishes to grow from a technical position into project management and likes, what should be an ideal course. Considering me to be a mechanical engineer with a MS degree and about 2 years of technical work experience, what will be my best bet to gradually grow into project management. Should I be taking courses in management, with the fact that I did not take courses in management in my MS, as my thesis advisor did not like that fact. Anyhow, your suggestions and opinions are always welcome.
Thankyou
Lone crusader
This thread is a great place to know what most of us think of project management and extent of technical skills required to perform well in a role of project manager/leader.
What I am thinking about is, if one wishes to grow from a technical position into project management and likes, what should be an ideal course. Considering me to be a mechanical engineer with a MS degree and about 2 years of technical work experience, what will be my best bet to gradually grow into project management. Should I be taking courses in management, with the fact that I did not take courses in management in my MS, as my thesis advisor did not like that fact. Anyhow, your suggestions and opinions are always welcome.
Thankyou
Lone crusader
One advice is: If you shine too much as a technical guru, company will pigeon-hole you into that position. To be noticed, it helps to shine just enough but definitely you need to show initiative and be proactive.
If this is your first job, it may be difficult to climb up the corporate ladder rapidly (they may treat you like a young engineer forever). Do not hesitate to open yourself for other opportunities. There just might be a position you want out there.
Good luck
If this is your first job, it may be difficult to climb up the corporate ladder rapidly (they may treat you like a young engineer forever). Do not hesitate to open yourself for other opportunities. There just might be a position you want out there.
Good luck
HEC
If you’re working for me all I have to know is 1.) You’re competent (know what your doing) and 2.) A team player. A bad score on either will get you off the team.
When I have people working for me I let them do their thing and leave them alone. I expect their cooperation even when it means compromising what some may consider engineering judgment. An example might be sizing a transformer and service for a project. The electrical engineer may want to optimize the size of the transformer and service by waiting for all the load data (which may never be complete) before he decides on a 1500 or 2000 kva transformer. That’s good if you have all the time in the world. If the plant has a $100,000 a day revenue stream I might direct him to put in a 2,500 kva transformer and a 4,000 amp service. So it's overbuilt, The differential cost is less than half a days income. In the next 20 years the 2,000 kva might have saved him $400 a year, but two weeks extra income and a depreciation cash flow now are what gets the owner the bucks to pay your salary. It’s usually not a big deal as most plants change (it's good to have the extra power) . In reality lots of engineers spend to much time "polishing turds", someone has to bring them on track. Engineering is an art and science; sometime you gotta let the pretend science go. Sometimes you just have to do something even if it's not quite perfect.
Career wise for you it’s better to be on a project that finished two months early than it is to be on one that had the most efficient, best engineered electrical system designed in the last 40 years.
Did Hannibal know how to drive an elephant? or Churchill know how to fly a Spitfire, or General Grove know a Feynman Diagram from a prescription for sulfa drugs?.
If you’re working for me all I have to know is 1.) You’re competent (know what your doing) and 2.) A team player. A bad score on either will get you off the team.
When I have people working for me I let them do their thing and leave them alone. I expect their cooperation even when it means compromising what some may consider engineering judgment. An example might be sizing a transformer and service for a project. The electrical engineer may want to optimize the size of the transformer and service by waiting for all the load data (which may never be complete) before he decides on a 1500 or 2000 kva transformer. That’s good if you have all the time in the world. If the plant has a $100,000 a day revenue stream I might direct him to put in a 2,500 kva transformer and a 4,000 amp service. So it's overbuilt, The differential cost is less than half a days income. In the next 20 years the 2,000 kva might have saved him $400 a year, but two weeks extra income and a depreciation cash flow now are what gets the owner the bucks to pay your salary. It’s usually not a big deal as most plants change (it's good to have the extra power) . In reality lots of engineers spend to much time "polishing turds", someone has to bring them on track. Engineering is an art and science; sometime you gotta let the pretend science go. Sometimes you just have to do something even if it's not quite perfect.
Career wise for you it’s better to be on a project that finished two months early than it is to be on one that had the most efficient, best engineered electrical system designed in the last 40 years.
Did Hannibal know how to drive an elephant? or Churchill know how to fly a Spitfire, or General Grove know a Feynman Diagram from a prescription for sulfa drugs?.
Firstly, you should make it known that you're interested in management. Frankly, we've got lots of superstars in engineering and almost noone in PM or IPT leads roles.
Then, you need to get yourself a small IPT position, something big enough to get the right flavor, but not too big to overwhelm you.
Classes are OK, but I'm not convinced you need to have much there. Most of it is common sense, balancing the desires, deadlines and money from the customer with the laws of physics, human nature, reality, etc. Avoid lying, particularly to your immediate superiors, but make sure you always have your Pearl Harbor memos retrievable.
Calibration is critical. You need to know when any given engineer tells you that something will get done in a week, what the correction factor is for that individual.
TTFN
Then, you need to get yourself a small IPT position, something big enough to get the right flavor, but not too big to overwhelm you.
Classes are OK, but I'm not convinced you need to have much there. Most of it is common sense, balancing the desires, deadlines and money from the customer with the laws of physics, human nature, reality, etc. Avoid lying, particularly to your immediate superiors, but make sure you always have your Pearl Harbor memos retrievable.
Calibration is critical. You need to know when any given engineer tells you that something will get done in a week, what the correction factor is for that individual.
TTFN
It was common knowledge at the first company that I worked for that in order to become an upper level manager (department head on up), that you had to have a lobotomy before accepting the promotion.
As I experience more and more management teams, I am starting to wonder if this isn't some unwritten rule applied to all corporations.
As I experience more and more management teams, I am starting to wonder if this isn't some unwritten rule applied to all corporations.
No lobotomy required; just a different perspective.
At one of my previous jobs, we'd often wonder why our GM's appeared to be insane. But, with the appropriate viewpoint, everything they did was terribly rational and scary.
He was 5th GM in 2 yrs. He knew that he had about 4 months to look good or become the previous GM. If he succeeded, he'd get promoted elsewhere.
Therefore, new products were irrelevant, so they got canceled. Existing cash cows were too low in revenue, but a forced last-time buy would goose the bottomline. Problems in the existing product could be kicked down the road for the next GM, no matter what happened, so he kept shipping. All the extra employees were superfluous, so they got axed.
Obviously insane from a long-term employee's perspective, but brilliantly logical and coldly calculating as a GM.
TTFN
At one of my previous jobs, we'd often wonder why our GM's appeared to be insane. But, with the appropriate viewpoint, everything they did was terribly rational and scary.
He was 5th GM in 2 yrs. He knew that he had about 4 months to look good or become the previous GM. If he succeeded, he'd get promoted elsewhere.
Therefore, new products were irrelevant, so they got canceled. Existing cash cows were too low in revenue, but a forced last-time buy would goose the bottomline. Problems in the existing product could be kicked down the road for the next GM, no matter what happened, so he kept shipping. All the extra employees were superfluous, so they got axed.
Obviously insane from a long-term employee's perspective, but brilliantly logical and coldly calculating as a GM.
TTFN
- Thread starter
- #28
Thank you for the overwhelming response. I guess I am one of those many engineers who are desperately trying to find ways to improve their career paths. I should have framed my question more like how lonecrusader framed it -
"if one wishes to grow from a technical position into project management and likes, what should be an ideal course. Considering me to be a mechanical engineer with a MS degree and about 2 years of technical work experience, what will be my best bet to gradually grow into project management."
I am in the same boat, I am a Civil Engineer with an MS in Construction Management about 3 yrs of experience and I want to climb the corporate ladder fast, and at this point, I am trying to find out whats the best way to do that. But, at the same time, I dont feel confident about the amount of technical knowledge I have as I have worked on different types of projects. No two projects I have worked on have been the same... so, there is limited knowledge from one project that I can apply to another project. I am stuck in a position where I do not have too many choices at this time and am just going where the job takes me.
But, I am thankful for the insightful (mostly
) advice that I have recieved from all of you.
"if one wishes to grow from a technical position into project management and likes, what should be an ideal course. Considering me to be a mechanical engineer with a MS degree and about 2 years of technical work experience, what will be my best bet to gradually grow into project management."
I am in the same boat, I am a Civil Engineer with an MS in Construction Management about 3 yrs of experience and I want to climb the corporate ladder fast, and at this point, I am trying to find out whats the best way to do that. But, at the same time, I dont feel confident about the amount of technical knowledge I have as I have worked on different types of projects. No two projects I have worked on have been the same... so, there is limited knowledge from one project that I can apply to another project. I am stuck in a position where I do not have too many choices at this time and am just going where the job takes me.
But, I am thankful for the insightful (mostly
) advice that I have recieved from all of you.
AboveRedline
Automotive
BJC
"Did Hannibal know how to drive an elephant? or Churchill know how to fly a Spitfire, or General Grove know a Feynman Diagram from a prescription for sulfa drugs?."
Bill Gates knows software....
Michael Dell knows PC's....
A manager with no technical expertise will only manage, to achieve greatness, you need a Leader. A Leader needs to be confident, have a vision of what the end-product will look like, and be able to steer all activities towards that vision.
Most of us become leaders through experience.
"Did Hannibal know how to drive an elephant? or Churchill know how to fly a Spitfire, or General Grove know a Feynman Diagram from a prescription for sulfa drugs?."
Bill Gates knows software....
Michael Dell knows PC's....
A manager with no technical expertise will only manage, to achieve greatness, you need a Leader. A Leader needs to be confident, have a vision of what the end-product will look like, and be able to steer all activities towards that vision.
Most of us become leaders through experience.
But Gene Roddenberry didn't know how to design or build a cell phone or even a communicator.
He had the vision of a small portable comm device with certain human factors engineering, while mobile phones, even the advanced one that Maxwell Smart used were still very cumbersome.
TTFN
He had the vision of a small portable comm device with certain human factors engineering, while mobile phones, even the advanced one that Maxwell Smart used were still very cumbersome.
TTFN
BJC,
Your post about oversizing a transformer was very informative. Unfortunately the clients that my employer currently work with would rather undersize them based upon preliminary data rather than oversize, as you conservatively and cost efficiently did. Guess who gets the liability for this undersizing? I would caution you on the use of the word "nerd" however. This term has been used quite often to describe engineers and anyone else of intelligence by the general public and by popular media. It has no place on an engineering forum and makes me see red. Other than this, thanks for your interesting viewpoints.
Your post about oversizing a transformer was very informative. Unfortunately the clients that my employer currently work with would rather undersize them based upon preliminary data rather than oversize, as you conservatively and cost efficiently did. Guess who gets the liability for this undersizing? I would caution you on the use of the word "nerd" however. This term has been used quite often to describe engineers and anyone else of intelligence by the general public and by popular media. It has no place on an engineering forum and makes me see red. Other than this, thanks for your interesting viewpoints.
Didn't mean to upset you EddyC. In this discussion I have tried to see how the rest of the world see engineers. It's OK for engineers to see project managers as inferior beings because they don't have every iota of technical knowledge in a particular area. No all engineers are uncooperative bad team player, but therea are enough of them that the sterotype exist. All you need to do is infer or state in a meeting sometime that your manager doesn't know enough about transformer loading and he should be managing someone ( like you ) who does. you'll be on the list from then on.
The amount of technical knowledge a manager needs varies with the type project. If it's a building the manager doesn't need to know any thing about electrical, if it's a submarine the manager better know a lot about hull design.
My point to Moonstone was if he wants to be a projet manager go for it. If according to some here he has to wait until he has more technical knowledge than anyone who works for him, he'll never make it. Projected managers are really people managers, their main function is to make it possible for other people to do their job.
The amount of technical knowledge a manager needs varies with the type project. If it's a building the manager doesn't need to know any thing about electrical, if it's a submarine the manager better know a lot about hull design.
My point to Moonstone was if he wants to be a projet manager go for it. If according to some here he has to wait until he has more technical knowledge than anyone who works for him, he'll never make it. Projected managers are really people managers, their main function is to make it possible for other people to do their job.
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