technical skills or learn to BS 3

[oneintheeye]

in your experience what gets you places (i.e. promotion/money). Learning technical skills or being a BSer and being confident in what your saying even if it is total rubbish. I think I waste my time learning technical skills when the money goes to the BSers of this world.
This is not meant to be a rant sorry.

 

[Twoballcane]

Are we confusing what the term BSer means? You can have good communication skills, but not be a BSer. To me a BSer has at least three qualities, one is that they can take a subject that they have no idea and still speak as if he is an expert (sales people with no engineering degree), a person who can think on their feet and at the last second can say anything crazy (but still sounds technically correct) to save the moment (managers), and a person who can take any bad subject / issues and turn it around to make it sound fantastic (CEOs).



Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[oneintheeye]

yeah I'm not talking communication skills or speaking about your subject matter, I'm taking about someone with low technical skills but somehow by virtue of their mouth can seemingly get promotions and high wages despite not being able to do any technical stuff.

 

[Ussuri]

"Mwaa Huh Huh Ha"

For some reason that reminded me of Mumm-Ra, on you go Kenat, show your age...

 

[oneintheeye]

is that mum-ra the ever living?

 

[KirbyWan]

If you're talking about a BS'er who really dosen't know what he or she is talking about, that may get you by once or twice, but eventually someone will pick up that you are (insert you favorite euphemism for) an idiot.

If you're talking about a BS'er who has some technical knowledge and has the gift of gab. Can think on his or her feet and point out the positives that come with any negative. That is someone who is a good salesmetn then you have a winning combination.

If you comepare the good BS's above to a technical master who's communication skills are so limited that he can create a near optimal design but can't defend it effectivly he is a failure as an engineer. His good designs will be sidelined by less optimal ones that are better presented and defended.

There is the rare example of the technical master who can communicate masterfully. These are the unsung heros of the engineering profession. Poeple like Wil Taylor who know and share with justification so you know and you know why. Your my hero Wil.

-Kirby



Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

 

[IRstuff]

If that's your definition of BSer, then you really don't have a choice. It's not something that you learn, it's something that you are pretty much born with, as with charisma.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[JohnRBaker]

In my line of work I have to often make presentations and demonstrate how our software products will benefit a company. Our customer base is very diversified and so you are not always an 'expert' on their industry or their products, however I've learned a few things which always seems to help. To start with, now with the Internet it's a bit easier to do some quick 'research' on most companies and their industry segment (when I started doing this 30 years ago it was a lot tougher to get quick information about anything). Also, when I would meet the customer and after the 'small talk', I would ask them a few questions about their products, their processes, their industry perhaps asking who their competitors were, after about 5 minutes I would start into my presentation, but by then I knew enough to stay that 5 minutes ahead of them. Granted, it helps that I've got a broad engineering background (BSME) and 40+ years experience and am well read and traveled, but if you stay just ahead of the client, he thinks you know everything.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[MechEng2005]

You don't consider BSing a technical skill? Based on some of the jargon and technical terms I've heard thrown out there, I would have sworn that the typical BSing salesman knew more about how the product works than the person that designed it.

-- MechEng2005

 

[JohnRBaker]

But I'm not a salesman, I work in R&D (staff to the VP of Software Development), it's just that I'm often asked to become involved in sales efforts, like why I'm in Detroit for most all of next week.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[KENAT]

Ahh, you're involved in selling NX to Chrysler huh;-).

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[JohnRBaker]

I can't say ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[shadow401]

I knew the head sales manager for a precision gage company that worked there for over 20 years. He once he had a client called him up and say that there was a typo on the gage he sold him which listed an accuracy of “0.001000”. The sales manager argued with him saying that "the gages are just really good and that extra zeros don't matter”. Apparently he was a BSer that knew nothing about the accuracy of the PRECISION GAGES he was selling. When I tried to explain significant digits to him he looked at me with a blank look. By the way, he makes about 5 times more then I do.

 

[IRstuff]

Just because he's an ignorant slut ;-), it doesn't necessarily make him a BSer.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[asixth]

I refuse to BS. If I don't know the answer, I say "I don't know and I will get back to you". BSer's may appear to advance further than others but they will get found out for the frauds they are and it is very embarrassing when an experience engineer brings them crashing back to Earth.

Talking with confidence is a very important characteristic that must be developed. People skills will get you further in your field than any other quality. People skills combined with a thorough base of technical knowledge would be awesome.

 

[berkshire]

Abraham Lincoln had this subject well covered.

B.E.

 

[Twoballcane]

?

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[shamsdebout]

A gift for Gab will take you places, I had a manager that was a PE but his strength was his ability to speak on things he wasn't sure about in such a convincing manner that you would be sold. He truly has a gift, he is by no means a bad engineer, but there were more than a few occassion where he would throw out numbers, code references, proposed design schemes that were not technically correct but if you didn't know to research what he said you would think he knew what he was taking about. He worked well with the clients, he was able to get business, smooth over any conflicts, and maintain trust with the clients. His downfall is that he took it too far, he didn't want to work, and with a very technically sound engineer working under him he was exposed.

 

[plasgears]

As an engr in design, project, or other organized discipline, go for Toastmaster training. We have had engrs, salesmen, real estate, etc, who have put their presentation skills to good use. Your progress will be surprisingly rapid. There is the basic course of ten speeches, then the advanced with elective speeches, and then the sky is the limit.

I was instrumental in bringing eulogies to the advanced course. That is one of the most challenging tasks. when I gave a number of eulogies for family members, they asked, 'how did you do it?' The answer was always Toastmasters.

 

[brandoncdg]

Toastmasters? I need to look into that. I know a lot of people who BS and others around them are very annoyed. If you have your PE and non-technical people know you are faking it constantly, that is pretty bad. I don't get a good vibe if this has helped the person or not though.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading

http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com

http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

 

[stanweld]

twoballcane,
RE berkshire: What was attributed to Lincoln, often misquoted (probably herein), was, "You can fool some of the people all the time, all the people some of the time but never all the people all the time."