Tesla's giant 'recall'...

[JohnRBaker]

All of the previous threads concerning Tesla and their safety issues have been closed, so I had to start a new one:

Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-au...oring-system-8060508627a34e6af889feca46eb3002

An excerpt from the above item:

Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[EdStainless]

Interesting that they can't push this through their wireless update system.
Must be a firmware issue.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[IRstuff]

Interesting that they can't push this through their wireless update system.
Must be a firmware issue.

https://apnews.com/article/tesla-autopilot-recall-driver-monitoring-system-8060508627a34e6af889feca46eb3002[/URL]]The update was to be sent to certain affected vehicles on Tuesday, with the rest getting it later.

The recall is a virtual recall.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[BrianPetersen]

The recall is an over-the-air update. Owners don't need to do anything. Tesla has done this before.

I get the impression that Tesla is not on board with NHTSA's findings. Doubling the frequency with which it nags the driver to pay attention, or other such simple changes, won't fix this. It will be interesting to see if they actually do more than that.

 

[stevenal]

My wife has a 2020 Highlander. When the cruise is engaged, it very forcefully takes control of the steering. I had many arguments with it until I relaxed, said my mantra (Toyota knows all) and relaxed my grip on the wheel. At this point the car complained I wasn't paying enough attention. No winning allowed here.

 

[BrianPetersen]

I've had rental cars with Toyota Safety Sense. I despise lane-keep assist that rigidly keeps the car centered in the lane. Can't have two cooks in the kitchen. Either I maintain steering control, or the car maintains steering control ... can't be both, and I trust myself to do it better. In the rental cars, I've figured out how to turn that off independently of the cruise control.

If LKA rigidly adheres to the center of the lane, what happens if you want to avoid a bump or pothole or piece of debris? What happens if you want to give a cyclist or pedestrian more space? Toyota Safety Sense fights me, and that's why I turn it off.

My Chevrolet Bolt has LKA but it's very subtle, acting only if it sees an actual transgression over a painted line or whatever else it deems to be the edge of the lane, and it applies gentle steering wheel torque, easily overcome. It doesn't bother me, so I leave it on.

Of course, the facebook group gets people complaining that GM's LKA is "useless", it doesn't keep the car centered, etc. (Yeah, that's because the driver is expected to DRIVE, and the system intentionally does not lull the driver into thinking otherwise! The instruction book, which of course no one reads, has this in writing ...)

I haven't driven a Tesla.

 

[EdStainless]

Our Toyota is older than yours Steven and the LKA is much less intrusive.
But we still have it turned off because it gets annoying.
I have a buddy with a Tesla and for some reason they need to physically see his car for this.
But those must be a very small fraction of the total.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[IRstuff]

I've figured out how to turn that off independently of the cruise control.

2023 RAV4 has independent LKA switch, and you can still get traditional cruise control by holding down the cruise control activation switch for 3 seconds.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[WinelandV]

I had to shut the lane assist off on my 2021 Sienna. Just going down the highway, it'd fight me to try and stay centered, but when I would try to let it keep me in the lane... it would drift over the dashed line.

Please note that is a "v" (as in Violin) not a "y".

 

[XR250]

I had to shut the lane assist off on my 2021 Sienna

Same here on my 2023 Mazda. I let it vibrate but not control the wheel.
Then again, it is a stick as I prefer to drive myself

 

[WinelandV]

ZR250,

I also have a manual Mazda 3.. but's it's almost 15 years old. No fancy lane assist or radar.

Please note that is a "v" (as in Violin) not a "y".

 

[JohnRBaker]

My 2021 GMC Terrain only has the adaptive cruise-control and the lane warning system. In the case of the lane warning system, it's strictly passive. All it does is warn you, by vibrating your seat, either on the right or the left side, if you wonder outside your lane without having your turn signals on. And you can disable it completely is you want. It also has a low-speed, auto-braking system which works great in places like parking lots where someone might pull out without looking. Another feature is automatic high-beam control, which seems to work very well, just about as considerate as I would be if I was controlling it myself. Again, this is strictly an option.

The one thing that my car doesn't have that I would like, which my wife's 2018 Mercedes C300 has, is the automatic wiper system, which comes on when it rains and adjusts the timing of the wipers based on how much rain is actually falling. The only thing you have to remember is to turn it off when you go through the car-wash.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[XR250]

I'm going to go off on a bit of a rant here, but honestly, most of these driver's aids are there to compensate for the fact that you cannot see shit out of cars nowadays. Don't know if this is more driven by meeting federal crash requirements or young whippersnapper car designers just suck nowadays.
I'm 8 months in on a new Mazda3. The car is almost undriveable without a backup camera, rear cross traffic alert and lane change assist. I still cannot get used to it. Comparing that to my old E30 BMW where I could see everything, it is a much different experience.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Our granddaughter has a Mazda 3, I'll have to ask her what she thinks. Speaking of the Mazda 3, our son, the father of the driver, drove the car from California to Texas, and as we speak, is currently helping his daughter drive from Michigan to Texas (her Christmas break from school just started). I'll also ask him what he thinks.

As for my 2021 GMC Terrain, I have no real complaints about visibility. And while I don't drive my wife's Mercedes C300 all tha tmuch, except to go and gas it up, I've never felt that there's visibility issues. Now, I have to admit that over the years, with all the rental cars that I've had to drive when traveling on business, there were dozens of cars that I would never consider owning, for one reason or another. That being said, I rented a GMC Terrain back in February 2013 and was very impressed, so much so, that I bought one myself a month later.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

One of the selling points of my Dacia Jogger and Duster for me was they don't have all this driver assist stuff apart from a reversing camera and no electrical handbrake.

The salesman tried to get me to buy the upgrade pack for them all which was nearly 2k euro.... I told him I would pay to not have them if they were standard.

The other major selling point was the from factory LPG engine. Which is working out great.

 

[XR250]

Our granddaughter has a Mazda 3, I'll have to ask her what she thinks. Speaking of the Mazda 3, our son, the father of the driver, drove the car from California to Texas, and as we speak, is currently helping his daughter drive from Michigan to Texas (her Christmas break from school just started). I'll also ask him what he thinks.

I have the hatchback. The sedan has much better visibility.

One of the selling points of my Dacia Jogger and Duster for me was they don't have all this driver assist stuff apart from a reversing camera and no electrical handbrake.

The salesman tried to get me to buy the upgrade pack for them all which was nearly 2k euro.... I told him I would pay to not have them if they were standard.

The other major selling point was the from factory LPG engine. Which is working out great.

Yeah, the electric parking brake is also annoying AF. Neat that you can get factory LPG.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, my 2021 GMC Terrain has an electric parking brake which will engage automatically if you shut-off the engine while on a grade, which our off-street parking area is just slanted enough that most of the time it will engage. The rest of the time I set it myself. Now if the brake had been set automatically, when you start the car and put it in reverse, the brake disengages automatically. However, if you had set it manually, then you have to manually release it. BTW, in the new Terrains, all of that stuff, setting/unsetting the parking brake, selecting your gear, etc, are down with 'buttons' (actually toggles which makes it harder to accidentally engage/disengage anything).

When I was test driving the Terrain and I saw for the first time the 'buttons' for the gear shift, I commented that the first time I had seen something like that was when my Uncle bought an Edsel and it had 'push-button drive'. The sales guy looked at me like he'd never heard of an Edsel and was shocked to learn that push-button shifting was NOT a new invention. I said I can remember when Chrysler had that has well. A friend of mine in high school drove a Chrysler where the shift buttons were on far left-side of the dashboard, next to the window. On the Edsel, they were in the middle of steering wheel, where the horn button used to be (this was before airbags).

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Roga50]

Push button shifting... Isn't that the thing that killed Anton Yelchin (in a Jeep Grand Cherokee)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Yelchin#:~:text=Original Series.-,Lawsuit and recalls,-[edit]

I think it was determined that the shifting was confusing and dangerous and you could inadvertently have the vehicle still in gear and not realize it.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Not familiar with that, but in the two+-years that I've been driving my Terrain, I've had no problems. My only issue is that when I'm driving my wife's car, a Mercedes C300, I catch myself reaching for the shift buttons instead of using the simple column-mounted 'shift lever', which BTW, you move up or down to select your gear.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[BrianPetersen]

Push button shifting... Isn't that the thing that killed Anton Yelchin (in a Jeep Grand Cherokee)?

No, that was a self centering lever. You can't discern what mode it is in by the position of the lever.

My Bolt has push buttons (not exactly, you have to lift to engage reverse or forward, less likely to hit accidentally) and I don't mind them. It automatically goes into park mode if you turn it off or open the drivers door, to avoid the accidental rollaway situation.