Texas and Other US Power Shortages 11

[Mbrooke]

Seems like a lot of people are losing power from the cold:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/winter-fury-unleashes-freeze-over-022658884.html

Any idea what is causing all this? Besides the weather of course.

 

[Mbrooke]

"close inefficient power plants due to not needing to keep them available"

Errrr... no. I don't believe in closing power plants. I think this is part of the problem with the industry as a whole.


I think what the US needs is a massive 765kv system with 345kv substransmission. Ample reserve generation scattered about.

 

[dik]

We don't have the cold... ours is a dry cold...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[cuky2000]

A few years ago, during the development of the CREZ project, a 745 kV transmission system was proposed instead 345 kV but found an strong opposition by large number of utilities members of ERCOT.

 

[Mbrooke]

CREZ Project?

 

[3DDave]

https://poweringtexas.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Transmission-and-CREZ-Fact-Sheet.pdf

 

[Fischstabchen]

Cuky,

That was probably for good reason because the state has no existing 765 kv network to tie into so the only points that would be able to tie into the network would need 765 step down transformers. Double circuit 345 kV brings more benefits than tieing in at a high but odd voltage.

 

[Mbrooke]

Ideally, there would a a whole 765kv mesh covering the whole national from Washing State to Florida, From Arizona to Maine. Canada would interconnect with relative ease as they already have 765kv in Hydro Quebec IIRC.

345kv subtransmission and 34.5kv distribution.

@#DDave- Thanks for the pdf!

 

[thermionic1]

All these great ideas about a bigger HV grid. The problem is getting it done. We put in a ~170 mi 345 line from state to state about 3 years ago. The planning / permitting process took 8 years and I don't know how many millions of dollars. The physical construction portion took almost 2 years. This was sold as being able to move green energy from the West to our region.

The next interstate line, proposed for the same reasons to a different neighboring state, has been approved. Whenever we travel to visit the in laws, there are signs along the highway (for about 30 miles) stating opposition to the new line.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Permitting is often a very high hurdle.
Surry-Skiffes Creek Transmission Line was needed to mitigate stability violations that would occur after the Yorktown Generating plant was retired (age and environmental emissions reasons). All of the other possible paths have more significant environmental problems than the skiffs creek option. Details are in the links.

The project involves a 7.76-mile 500 kV overhead transmission powerline from Surry nuclear power plant in Surry County to the proposed Skiffes Creek 500 kV-230 kV-115 kV switching station, on 51 acres of private and commercial property in James City County, and 20.2 miles of 230 kV overhead powerline along an existing right of way from the switching station to Whealton substation in Hampton.

Application for first permit to build June 11, 2012 (State Utility Regulator)
Energized on Feb. 26, 2019.
March 1, 2019 - The D.C. Circuit Court remanded the Army Corps of Engineers permit for the Skiffes Creek transmission line and ordered the Corps to conduct an environmental impact statement.
Not sure what happens if the permit for necessary infrastructure gets rescinded, the other scenario in the original study included rolling blackouts

Surry-Skiffes Creek Transmission Line

Dominion Power Surry-Skiffes Creek-Whealton EIS Norfolk District, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

 

[Fischstabchen]

I think this talk about transmission while helpful is misleading. The most reliable system is one which the generation is placed the nearest to the load. These overlays, Crez or XCap in Miso, are the result of violating the principle to bring renewable energy to their load centers. I am not aware of any mechanisms that force or incentivize generation to be located near load centers. When utilities were vertical, the planning was better due to not having competing groups. Transmission utilities are more than happy to build transmission to the moon if they get their rate of return. Generators don't have an incentive to mitigate grid issues if they aren't being compensated for the hassle.

 

[crshears]

One would think a D9 can break that up (if it will start).

Almost certainly it would, as long as it's one of the older ones with a gasoline-fueled starting engine; starts by hand, once running rolls the main engine over at low speed, gasoline engine heat warms block, oil, etc. in main engine, while exhaust gases are routed into main engine air intake manifold, further enhancing main engine warm-up.

Continue until main engine is fully warmed, then crank main engine at high speed . . . voilà!

Yes Québec has 765 kV lines, but all ties from Trans-ènergie to other entities are via AC-DC-AC tie due to the aforementioned instability issues.

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

 

[waross]

One would think a D9 can break that up (if it will start).

It'll start in Canada, but maybe not in Texas.
The operators and mechanics in Canada know a lot of methods and tricks to start diesel engines in cold weather.
Did you know that if you buy a Chevrolet in Canada with a factory installed block heater it has a built in thermostat and in not active above 0F, -18C ?

By the way, I haven't heard one of those pup engines starting a big Cat for decades.
With that little gas engine resonating in the large diesel exhaust system, you could hear a Cat starting on the next mountain on a cold morning.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[crshears]

A collector not far from my place has one of those big old Cats...

For a while until the 1970s my utility had four 30 MVA simple cycle gas-turbine-driven generators here

https://www.google.com/maps/place/W...037b28c7231d90!8m2!3d43.4642578!4d-80.5204096

for short-term peak shaving; they were still there when I was briefly detailed to work out of that site in the mid 80s, but they hadn't run in some time. Starting was by a pup gasoline engine [ four-cylinder, if memory serves ] that was used to start a big honkin' Cat Diesel engine of some sort, it mighta been an eight or twelve cylinder in-line, although I'm far from positive on that. It in turn was used to crank the gas turbine through purge and eventually to self-sustaining speed, which IIRC was around 90% of synchronous speed.

CR

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." [Proverbs 27:17, NIV]

 

[cranky108]

I heard the news as they interviewed several people, mostly political people. It almost made me throw up. It is just becoming a running joke. We need to do this and that.

It seems they did not winterize the gas system and many electric plants, because of maybe rates, or regulation, and now that all want to blame the utilities for inaction.

There were reports on this from 2011 about winterizing, and reports on the interoperability of gas and electric, and all that paper used for those reports must have been thrown in the trash. So now we can see clearly the problem, it's government waste and finger pointing.

Just frustrating.

Sorry to rant, but I feel better.

 

[dik]

I remember my cousin, on the farm, using ether sprayed into the intake during really cold mornings.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

or maybe it simply increases profits... at the cost of lives?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[waross]

Who lives in Texas?
Are there any products like this stocked in Texas fuel depots?

I haven't seen an engine started with raw 100% ether for about 50 years.
It was very dangerous to use and to store.
It had the power to traumatically dis-assemble an engine if too much was used.
It was a liquid, often poured on a rag and held in front of the air intake.

Many of the newer diesel engines use pre-combustion chambers and many pre-combustion chambers will not stand the stress of starting fluid.
Many diesel engines now have glow plugs to pre-heat the air in the intake manifold.
I have used a propane torch to heat the intake manifold as an aid to starting a diesel in cold weather.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[cranky108]

The can I have is a spray. I need to use it to start the lawn mower in the Spring.

 

[cranky108]

Then again I am not in Texas.

 

[waross]

I have two diesel generators, two diesel tractors and two diesel trucks.
Of the six engines, only one allows the use of starting fluid.
The other five each use a combination of both glow plugs and block heaters.
As well as the block heater and the glow plugs I needed to use booster batteries to start one tractor at minus 30C to clear the driveway of snow a few years ago.
This was one of the engines in which the use of starting fluid was prohibited.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!