Texas power issues. Windfarms getting iced up. 67

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's a lot of capacity that's been lost. Must admit being Aberdonian we always associate Texas with hot and humid... Not snow storms.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nd-turbines-texas-power-outages-b1802596.html

 

[Tomfh]

Granted, under ideal conditions, DURING THE SUMMER, the renewable sources in the state did often reach 25% (Texas in fact has got the most renewables) with most of that coming from wind. However, in the winter, this typically drops to around 10% at best,

I thought that was the point? Renewables are intermittent. Sometimes 25%+, sometimes 50%+, Sometimes far less. So the fossil fuel generators are having to ramp up and down a lot more, meaning the overall supply is far more volatile and liable to end up in a hole.

 

[RedSnake]

SnTMan

How? Why? Not able?

It was my thought, didn't want say it though, didn't want to be rude ;-)
I would say that it is probably just a little bit better here.
I actually have four incoming valves at my summer house to use if needed.
I only have water during the summer so I have to turn on and off the water and empty and remove and attach my water meter every spring and autumn, so I guess I am not average in knowledge.

CWB1
The same sort the rest of the country uses.
And for us non Americans what does that mean?
Only plastic PE / PEM outside and copper or PE /PEM inside?

1503-44
Turning off the water will blow the pipe.
Hmm.. then it is a poor system ;-)


Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[dik]

even our outside taps, have an internal shut off... and the outside taps are opened to drain to prevent freezing the lines. Our external lines coming into the house have 6' of frost protection...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

This is the outside taps we use.

https://www.oras.com/en/products/oras/garden-valve/431520

 

[JohnRBaker]

I thought that was the point? Renewables are intermittent. Sometimes 25%+, sometimes 50%+, Sometimes far less.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that you can lie about it just to make it look like it's a biggest issue than it was. If this had happened in the Summer, then citing the 25% figure would have at least been accurate even though it would still have been disingenuous since if your system hadn't been designed to work without losing what everyone knows was "intermittent", that's a pretty big problem in itself and to pretend that it wasn't is just misleading the people who're suffering. After all, if there's going to be a demon in all of this, make sure it's the real demon, not the one that you want to think it is because it's the one you'd like it to be. But really, since this was a Winter event, and the historical renewable contribution was in the 10% range, then making the 25% claim was nothing more than trying to deflect the public outrage away from the real problems, and in the end, that's not going to help prevent this from happening again. And if it's true, that after 24 hours, the renewables were doing a better job of getting the grid powered-up again, that's a success story that should be acknowledged.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[SnTMan]

RedSnake, combination of things: As I said, my service cutoff (at the meter) is very hard to turn. It is deep enough that, with an ordinary water key, the handles are about a foot (1/3m) or less off the dirt. I am literally kind of on my knees and elbows on the ground and can't really get any oomph on it. To top it all off, I guess I'm just not as studly as I used to be

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[dik]

The thing at the back is the cut-off?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[djs]

I lived in Houston many decades ago. One fact I was told that downtown Houston was built on a bog or swamp. In fact that was how Texas was able to defeat Santa Ana and become independent of Mexico. Now the problem with building on swamping land is the the water table is very high. Every one of those sky scrapers in Houston have multiple pumps in their basement to keep the buildings from flooding. These pups run 24/7. Also installed are backup generators to keep those pumps running if the power fails. So the lights seen in the photograph might be powered by the standby generators.

Another reason for Texas resistance to federal regulation dates back to the early 70's. Federal regulations set the price of natural gas being sold interstate. It did not regulate intrastate prices. So the price Texans paid for natural gas was many times greater than that paid by residents in non-gas producing states. Ironically the federal government permitted import of LPG to the Northeast at a cost many times what even Texans were paying. Of course all of this left a bad taste in most Texans mouths.

 

[RedSnake]

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[dik]

Thanks... the washer goes back to the end...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[RedSnake]

SnTMan
I asked my mechanic at work to make me one, I ordered it specially made
Just 3 pieces of square profile 2 welded to together the long one with the inner dimension as the bult on the service valve, and the short one on topp and then a size smaller square tube that is loos so i can change the leaver length
The length is as high as my elbows when standing straight, also tired on crawling on all four ;-)

Best regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[dgallup]

This is the outside taps we use.

That's exactly the same as what I use in South Carolina. They drain all the water outside the valve and the valve is on the inside of the wall. They're good as long as the inside of the house is a little above freezing.

If you read the historical novel Texas: A Novel by Michener, he references several blizzards that I think were every bit as bad as this one. They don't happen often but they do happen. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

 

[waross]

This is the outside taps we use.

I have the same thing .
For 5 or 6 years when we were carrying water to a few horses by hand every day it took about 2 to 4 liters of hot water to thaw them out every day.
We have moved and have a stock waterer with an underground feed and electric heat.
It has not frozen yet this winter.
Last winter with a burned out heater it was different.
hen I want water to fill the trailer tank to flood the skating rink, I use one of those freeze proof faucets.
I remove a ceiling tile in the rumpus room and direct a small fan on the inner part for a few hours or overnight to thaw it out when I need water outside.
The valve itself freezes so that the handle can not be turned to open the faucet.
That's a lot better than a standard faucet freezing behind the valve and bursting a pipe inside the house.

Running water to prevent freeze-up.
The action is two-fold.
The supply water is above freezing so the running water must be cooled and frozen as it transits the freeze area.
It often doesn't take much movement to keep the running water above the freezing point.
If the pipe does start to freeze, the ice tends to form on the inside surface of the pipe.
It gradually expands inward and reduces the usable inside diameter.
When the flow is finally choked off most of the ice expansion has already occurred and there is very little expansion to burst the pipe.
There are exceptions if the cooling zone is not uniform.
Anyone who has serviced a tubular ice making machine is familiar with this effect.
Ice is formed inside a tube as water flows down a very cold tube.
The tubes never break.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[RedSnake]

waross
"I remove a ceiling tile in the rumpus room and direct a small fan on the inner part for a few hours or overnight to thaw it out when I need water outside."
Are you melting the snow of your ceiling with a fan, to get water ouside ?
I am not following you now...

Best regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[bones206]

This is a rare weather event, according to reports are the previous similar event was more than 30 years ago. It is not just some wind turbines off line, but a number of coal and natural gas plants tripped off line. These power plants that are not designed for freezing conditions, and when exposed to extended serious sub freezing conditions, become unpredictable.

The question that comes to my mind is: why do we design critical infrastructure for a once-in-a-millennium seismic event (for example), but not for a once-in 30-yr cold weather event? Failed infrastructure has the same consequences regardless of how it happens... Is there a gap in the building codes for freeze protection at critical infrastructure facilities?

I know we don't have all the facts yet in terms of root causes with what happened in Texas, but in general terms could building codes be in part to blame here?

 

[Spartan5]

The fun part of leaving the taps running is when drainpipe is running through an unheated or otherwise exceedingly cold cavity. When the drain freezes up the water keeps flowing and pretty soon you have the Ice Capades!

 

[dik]

My rear outside tap was leaking last winter...just a bit... and I had a column of ice about 1' through and 1-1/2' high and the tap was completely encased in ice.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Tomfh]

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that you can lie about it just to make it look like it's a biggest issue than it was

A much bigger lie is renewables make electricity cheaper and more reliable, which is what the lie you speak of is attempting to counter.

 

[IFRs]

Tomfh - the reason that Texas has so much wind power is because it is far cheaper to install and run than a new power plant powered by coal or gas or nuke. Plain and simple - that's how it is.

 

[JohnRBaker]

And since ERCOT was established to procure and distribute power at the lowest possible cost per kilowatt hour, you darned well know that if the people installing the wind turbines and solar arrays could NOT demonstrate that they were indeed able to deliver said power at or below the current market rate in the state of Texas, that ERCOT would NOT have allowed them to connect to their grid.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without