Texas power issues. Windfarms getting iced up. 67

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's a lot of capacity that's been lost. Must admit being Aberdonian we always associate Texas with hot and humid... Not snow storms.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nd-turbines-texas-power-outages-b1802596.html

 

[JohnRBaker]

For what it's worth, this was the national power outage map for this past Tuesday, February 16th:

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[JohnRBaker]

And for the current outage map for Texas, go to:

https://poweroutage.us/area/state/texas

Here's what the Texas map looks like RIGHT NOW:

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[JohnRBaker]

And here is the national map showing if a state has an outage and what the maximum extent of that outage:

https://poweroutage.us/

Selecting a state will bring up a map of the state showing the status for each county in the state:

Here's the current national map:

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Tomfh]

Tomfh - the reason that Texas has so much wind power is because it is far cheaper to install and run than a new power plant powered by coal or gas or nuke. Plain and simple - that's how it is

Yes, it’s cheap electricity. Same as solar. When the wind is blowing and the sun is shining that is.

 

[JohnRBaker]

And that's all ERCOT cared about, the cost per kilowatt hour, at the moment it's being added to the grid. Based on a pure market-driven, buy and sell model, if renewables really were the cheapest power generated, even if it was only during daylight hours and when the wind was blowing, ERCOT would still prefer it over conventional suppliers, because that would give them the cheapest power cost possible. So if the 25% that renewables were adding to the grid was being done without any consideration given for how that contribution would be replaced when renewables were not able to produce, that's the fault of ERCOT and no one else.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[waross]

Hi Anna;
My rumpus room (or family room, or game room, or party room, it depends) is in the basement.
The freeze resistant tap projects into the false ceiling above the rumpus room.
There is no natural air circulation and convection is no enough to keep the valve seat above freezing.
The ambient temperature in the rumpus room is about 70F/21C
With a false ceiling tile removed and a small fan circulating warm air past the valve it soon thaws.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[SnTMan]

I read it said somewhere that wind power is "worthless when the wind blows and priceless when it doesn't".

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[dik]

Like it or not, wind and solar power are definitely in your future...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[FacEngrPE]

It seems the storage issue is on the table in ercot. Time will tell if this approach will get the amount of storage needed into their grid.

http://www.ercot.com/mktrules/keypriorities/bes

It is also not clear if this sort of cold weather event could possibly be mitigated in any measure by short term storage.

Fred

 

[RedSnake]

Yes and now when we are starting to build wind mills in tree instead of steel, they will be even cheaper. smile

Biggest problem, everybody thinks wind power is good, but nobody wants them in there backyard.

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[RedSnake]

As it seems to be some speculating due to lack of information.
I thought I would make some assumptions myself.
Balancing a power grid requires a lot of foresight, operational analysis and experience and also a robust and reliable transmission network.
If, say, 10% of the power production disappears at the same time as the consumption increases, there must also be a power reserve, but it will not work if the grid is not robust enough to deliver the power to where it need to be.
If you can not maintain the balance in / out lets say you get caught by surprise your only option is to disconnect consumers from the network to avoid a total collapse.
In addition to the fact that the wind turbines were icy, one can also suspect that the same thing happened with the air power lines, which may have led to more interruptions.
Fixing bad air power lines in a snowstorm is not something you normally do from an occupational safety perspective. The work usually does not start until snow and windstorms are over and it can take several days to get it in order.
Then we have what is called water trees in power cables, due too ground plastic insulated cables in an environment with significant water supply.
Moisture penetrates in the insulation on the cables and reduces the insulation capacity.
The consequence is a higher error rate, the cable can work under a long periods, but in the event of an overvoltage due to transients when trying to reset the power grid, there can be a short circuit.

If anyone thinks that this is going to be a 30 year recycling event, i am quit shore it will not.. it will happen more often and att longer periods.

Best regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[SnTMan]

Biggest problem, everybody thinks wind power is good, but nobody wants them in there backyard.

In the US, nobody wants anything in their backyard. I have a saying, Everybody wants the gasoline, nobody wants the refinery

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[FacEngrPE]

As this event starts to wind down (hopefully) some more reasons analysts is appearing. This author is starting to consider some reasonable questions

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/w...ave-been-prevented/?utm_source=pocket-newtab.

News Release February 19, 2021 ERCOT will end emergency conditions today

http://www.ercot.com/news/releases/show/225962.

Redsnake
ERCOT has a market philosophy that emphasizes real time cost, but does not compensate a power plant for just existing.
PJM has a market philosophy that considers availability, so market compensation was designed for that.
Millage of different approaches will vary.
I think PJM would also be shedding load if we lost 40% of spinning and on line generation. The planning

https://www.pjm.com/planning

is supposed to make sure that does not happen. The processes that ERCOT's posts are sufficiently different that the only conclusion that can be made is that the markets are very different.

Will we have more of these events? We can be sure history will repeat itself. It is up to us to decide how we remember our history. Here is some weather history 1900 to 2000 for Texas from NOAA

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/ewx/wxevent/100.pdf.

 

[SnTMan]

I don't know who this guy is, but it seems to me a reasonable take on events.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes and now when we are starting to build wind mills in tree instead of steel, they will be even cheaper.

The problem is that in Texas there are very few trees, and certainly none where the wind tends to blow the most consistently.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

interesting take:

https://theintercept.com/2021/02/19...ium=email&utm_source=The Intercept Newsletter

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[RedSnake]

The problem is that in Texas there are very few trees, and certainly none where the wind tends to blow the most consistently.

Well that is not a problem we are good at export in Sweden so you can buy them from us ;-)
I do not think there is any anywhere els.

Best Regards Anna


“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[dik]

Redsnake... is that a windmill shaft in wood?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[FacEngrPE]

You can't use a wood tower with the really large windmills.

Planned construction to replace retired coal generation, 27 miles off the Virginia coast. 2 ea 6MW units on line now. The remaining construction is planned to be 180 units at 14MW ~ 2,640 MW.

https://coastalvawind.com/.

I guess we will see how well this works out eventually.

Fred

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Maybe all expenses and aid should be reclaimed back off ercot.

Then there is a financial number to play with.