Texas power issues. Windfarms getting iced up. 67

[Alistair_Heaton]

That's a lot of capacity that's been lost. Must admit being Aberdonian we always associate Texas with hot and humid... Not snow storms.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nd-turbines-texas-power-outages-b1802596.html

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, we have a co-called 'smart meter' and we're on a plan which has different rates during the course of the day. There are Winter and Summer rates.

Here is the current rate schedule that we're on:

And here is the rate schedule that we'll have when Summer arrives:

We've also signed-up for the Summer A/C cycling program where they've attached a control device (connected to the cellular network) which allows the power company to turn-off our A/C unit when demand is high. Generally, these interruptions last for three to four hours, usually not more than once or twice a week, however, this past Summer, there were a couple of periods where they cycled our A/C several days in a row. Note that the 'incentive' for signing-up for this program is a discount of about $30/month (during the Summer), whether they need to interrupt our A/C or not.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[1503-44]

Winterizing gas gathering pipelines involves installing inline heat exchangers. They are gas fired, as you have the fuel right at your fingertips. The heaters should be lit in advance of hydrate formation, as hydrates do not necessarily form where heat needed to melt the plugs can be conveniently applied. It is far easier to prevent hydrates than to clear them once formed. In fact you may not even be able to locate exactly where the freeze took place. Injecting a de-icer and getting it to reach a plugged point may not be possible, as flow as stopped. Pressure reduction to vaporize the hydrates behind a plug may be difficult too, since no flow tends to increase well head pressures. And as LittleInch mentioned, freed plugs can go down the pipe like a cannon shot. I once worked for the largest gas producer in Tx, an "independent producer", not associated with any major oil/gas company in the late 80's. We sold gas to all and anybody and we could field 1 BCFD all by ourselves from 850 gas wells through 600 miles of our gathering system and 300 miles of transmission lines. I had 5 guys to operate the pipelines, well connections and light the heaters. I dont think we ever got all the heaters lit and many wells did not have them at all. Well production rates varied from a few thousand cfd to 50 million CFD. Heaters were only installed on the high productivity wells.

 

[1503-44]

I tried timed rates once. The plan turned out to be day, or night rates, 12pm-12am day, 12am-12pm, night. The day rate turned out to be so high, in relation to night rate that it made it quite painful to consider running the clothes dryer, or turning on the oven, or electric water heater and HVAC, except after mmidnight.Day rate was much higher than slightly higher than the average I expected. Some TX customers now are getting bills for up to $16,000, having somehow been allowed to get involved with "speculative" power contracts that should even worry a large power company lawyer. Crazy.

 

[Lou Scannon]

I use a/c very sparingly myself so I did not opt in to give control to the utility.
Perhaps when my wife moves in next year, I will change my mind, since she requires the indoor temp to be 72 degrees year around.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[dik]

...and more.

"The largest U.S. oil refiners released tons of air pollutants into the skies over Texas this past week, according to figures provided to the state, as refineries and petrochemical plants in the region scrambled to shut production during frigid weather."

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[byrdj]

I recall "hearing" about being able to buy your electricity from various companies so I googles Indexed electric billing and was shocked at all the "companies that now can.

(I delayed getting cell phone because of the "weird" way the various to get service)

So far my state allows the generating utility distribute and bill. A regulated monopoly works for me!

 

[Lou Scannon]

"The largest U.S. oil refiners released tons of air pollutants into the skies over Texas this past week, according to figures provided to the state, as refineries and petrochemical plants in the region scrambled to shut production during frigid weather."

And what of the environmental impact... is it serious? significant? measurable? quantifiable? Inquiring minds want to know.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

byrdj I too have a an option to buy form the BAltic spot rate and it was a huge family discussion because as soon as I read it I got a gut feel that it was a bad idea. It took me a day or two to finalise the argument not to for the other family members why it was a stupid idea. But the marketing was good. Lots of big font numbers and impressive graphs. But the bottom line to them was why are you paying @2 cents more for a kWh average. And just couldn't understand that the price they were seeing isn't a constant but a marketing average.

Basically in Jan the spot average is around 8 cents per kWh and during the summer its 4.5 cents. I pay 5.8 cents all year round but only pull less than 50 kWh from the grid in the summer months, winter it can be 1000 kWh a month.

And it took a bit of searching to show that the period between Dec and March which is the only time I pull significant amounts of power from the grid the rate we pay is actually under the spot price pretty much all the time never mind a crisis event. I also got the hard sell over the phone to try and get me to change 3 times with an ever increasing level of bullshite being spouted. The eventual argument was "your the only one in the area that hasn't seen the benefits of joining this amazing deal...." reply "I am the only one in the area that has a Engineering degree so that's hardly surprising".

In fact I suspect we are due the yearly phone calls again to try and get us to convert. I always go in and renew the contract on the 4th of Jan because then they release the new price for the year. If you leave it until end of Feb after which they start sending emails the spot price in Jan has usually dragged the price up. Sometimes its a bonus being a native English speaker and not speaking the local lingo or Russian. All the extended family groups have gone back to the old deal now that i have a couple of years bills to show them the stupidity of it all to compare against theirs.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

if your interested in the Nordic pool spot price history this link will give you it.

https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/Market-data1/Dayahead/Area-Prices/ALL1/Monthly/?view=table

 

[RedSnake]

Well I have a very low energi consumption to begin with only having a apartment (2800 kW a year) and a summerhouse (1800 kW a year) where we only use power in the summer.
So the power grid cost that you can't change, is higher then the actual electricity cost right now.
Summerhouse (16 A, 380 V, 175 EUR, 205 USD a year)
Apartment(16 I A, 380 V, 70 EUR, 85 USD a year)
For the electric power I choose a company whit low fixed cost (administration, etc.) but with spot price, the risk isn't so high for me, I managed to lower the electricity cost to with 2/3
I pay between (1 to 3,5 Cent EUR) (1,2 to 4,2 Cent US) per kW
(Edit) Forgot the tax.
I pay between (5,1 to 7,6 Cent EUR) (6,1 to 9,1 Cent US) per kW

We can choose between very many different power companies.
I didn't choose the cheapest but one with low fixed cost and a company that does not sell out your, personal data to other companies and call you to try to get you to change your deal every month, which makes me crazy.

I changed my mother to this company also because the one she hade had managed to trick here into long deals with a lot of stuff she didn't need and when she hade a 2 year contract they managed to renew it after one, so it was almost impossible to get out of it.
The one we have now it is one month notice period.

Alister since Baltics are in the Nord Pool as well can you choose to buy from Swedish companies ?

Best Regards A



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[byrdj]

SO......
Most public would rather go with the CHEAPEST offer (as advertised showing minmun spot in time) and not paying anything for insurance (ie releability)

sounds like what screwed TX

two decades past ( my last days visiting generation plants) The massive units I had commisioned decades prior to that, that were designed to be extremely reliable BUT also to be maintained in operation for years without shutting down were in a deregulated market where they were daily cycled. that is removed from service and allowed to go cold overnight and the next morning not knowing if or when they would be asked to expend a large part of their cyclic life providing for a demand not being met by the small independant generations (getting goverment subsideses) selling thier power cheaper.

NOW, if the fossil plant is not being used continous, there was no MONEY to pay for the massive increase in maintenance (due to cycling) so definately nothing to spend to make it weather proof for rare events

BUT the public got their CHEAP rates whule the "sun was shinning" (pharse use figuratively and in noway a pun to green generation) and should not be surprised by loss of service or the outragous rates charge as result

You should not call them Power Companies as they are merely power brokers, sort of like hedge funds....their managers will always get their cut no matter if public wins or LOSSES

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

A am a bit limited because of selling back to the grid with the solar.

I can use a Swedish company's to buy off. But then it becomes problematic to sell and if I do I get charged injection rates and loose the green grid money which is in the region of 6 cents per kWh . Plus the 0.5 cent green bonus over the top of the Nordic pool price.

I am with Electrum who haven't pissed me off yet. The other huge advantage with them is they run a single bill system. The others you end up with 4 bills a month from various places. With them it keeps a rolling credit of power injection and uses it to pay off the other charges. Having to go in and pay 3 bills per month and then claim back money off the 4th one would piss me off. The way I have it for 10-11 months of the year I don't have to do anything and it all sorts itself out so I don't pay anything. Cash turns up in the bank for the grid green money and the rest of the charges are covered by solar production. And only when the credit from that runs out I have to pay them something. During the summer between 65 and 90 euro appears in the wifes bank account from this setup. That money is guaranteed for the next 15 years. They shut that scheme down though on the 31st of Dec 2020 due to the new government having connections to the main large power producers who want peopel to use there power and certainly don't want any green money going into anyone but their own pockets.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

byrdj basically yes to everything you have said.

The locals here older than 35 are still coming to terms with leaving the Soviet union.

They will go for the cheapest price point every single time. So much so that you just can't get quality products.

My heating system for example is a very nice German made heatpump with all the fancy stuff already built in. It can speak to solar inverters etc etc.

My solar inverter again German and can do all sorts of fancy stuff.

The suppliers/installers do there up most to stop you using any of these features or future proofing your system by upgrading the crap they want to put in. I refused the mild steel paper thin C rated insulated hot water tank which they wanted to put in price 700 euro expected life span 5 years. I went for a 1800 euro imported from the UK stainless tank with A++ insulation and copper heat exchanger which my son will need to start thinking about replacing in 25 years time. But the amount of arguments I had over it. They could not see that 700 x 5 was double the price of 1800 x 1. Never mind the energy savings and having the effort of changing the tank every 5 years.

I used copper pipes for all my piping which should be good for 15 years at least... No leaks in 3 years. The locals wanted to put in PEX and snapfit connections. Gave me a load of nonsense about copper pipes. The relatives places have the local stuff and they have 2-3 leaks a year that need fixing and a major about every 2-3 years requiring redecoration afterwards and it seems to be a rolling process to replace the pipes. So what my copper cost twice as much and took me 4 days to put in instead of the 2 days they said they could do it with PEX. My parents house in Scotland me an my dad put copper pipe heating system in 40 years ago now and its only had one leak since and that was due to some young idiot plumber putting a section of flexible in because he couldn't be bothered bending a bit of copper pipe. I replaced it with a bit of bent copper pipe after the leak which took me 4 hours.

Solar inverter they refused point blankly to connect in an energy meter onto it which you need to put a battery onto it. All sort of nonsense about economics of it etc etc. So i bought one myself and set it up. Its already paid for itself being able to see what I am using and production and turning things on and off to self consume. And the battery is giving me 400 euro a year worth of power so giving a pay back time of 10 years not the 30 years they were saying.

It does my head in... They will use 20 euros worth of Fuel to drive to get a 10 euro discount. Never mind its a day doing it that you will never get back.

 

[RedSnake]

Well I can choose if I want the bill ones a month, every three month, every half year or ones a year.
The net provider bill comes every three month has always done.
So I have them all on three month, but I am thinking about changing on the summerhouse to half a year.
They sent me a bill last year saying that they were not going to charge me that month because the bill was so low they where going to put it on the next one it was for 3,5 EUR.

Bill paying is all done by autogiro the bills goes to the bank and they pay them from chosen account.
Haven't had any wrong bills as I know of yet.
The only bill I approves manually is the credit card bill, there is bigger risks with that one.

My mother doe she had also this bad phone company the same strategy as the power company.
They sent incorrect bills for over half a year she hade two phones one with low fixed cost and high calling cost and the other was the opposite, but they threw them around so on the phone she used most often so she got both high fixed cost and high calling cost, took me a month or more to make them pay it back.

I am getting ride of both my mothers power company and the phone company in a couple of month when the contract ends.
And I have told them in no uncertain terms that they should stop calling here and try to get here to sign a new one, and even blocked all phone calls from sales persons on her phones.
Both companies hade the highest amount of complaints with the consumer board, mostly for targeting old people, over the phone, making them take bad deals with long contracts.

Best Regards A


“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[RedSnake]

"I am the only one in the area that has a Engineering degree so that's hardly surprising"

The Swedish electricity network companies were quite tightly regulated in terms of cost, since from the beginning it was the state that owned everything and still owns a large part.
But they managed to open up for higher fees to be able to maintain and replace the network.
Which actually was bull shit as they made money for decades without doing preventative maintenance stuff.

So I received a letter that the electricity air lines in the summer housearea would be taken down and new ones would be put down in the earth.
And those who would be affected would be contacted.
One day when I come out to the cottage, they have dug and torn up trees on my property and it looked like hell.
No one had contacted me, so it was a one and a half year dispute over compensation and more.
The project manager was quite young and it was his first project management job.
He was polite and nice no problem in the way, but he could of course not make any decisions of his own.
My strategy was to take care of everything via email.
That way I would have everything documented and have time to check things out myself.

In the end, I agreed to meet him outside the cottage.
When I get there, he has another man with him, he was the project manager for the internet network, which they would put in at the same time.
He threatened me with digging up the cable and disconnect me from the network.
And I said
-You are welcome to do that, and then you can ask my neighbor who has a year-round house on the same cable what he thinks about that?
-I can fix my own energy supply if necessary.
I had never mentioned what I was really working with I did not think it would matter.
But when this annoying guy says for the third time.
- Do you know what? I am a educated electrical engineer so I know what I am talking about!
Then I said
- Do you know what? I am also a educated electrical engineer so I do too!
He got a bit more reasonable after that. ;-)

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[LittleInch]

Ha, I've only just noticed Alastairs dyslexia - "Taxas power issues" A previously unheard of state...

The texas price situation is an ultimate expression of free market economy, although even then there is a regulated limit ($9/kwH!), it's just that limit is a hundred times more than the "normal" rate. It will be interesting to see if they reduce that limit in the future. I bet they thought it would never get anywhere near that and just set some arbitrary number so high it wouldn't be seen as a cap. Anyone got a history of Texas spot prices over the last 5-10 years?

I've never seen a wholesale price offer to domestic customers in the UK and I think after this experience it probably wouldn't be allowed for the same reasons - i.e. most people would just get seduced by the "low" average price and ignore the potential risks.

The limit here in the UK is that the standard tariff offered if you don't switch suppliers or choose a fixed price deal - The Standard Variable Rate as it's called - is now limited to a set number so that those not inclined or incapable of switching suppliers don't end up paying too high a price for their inertia compared to those of us who do ( it's about + 30-40%).

In the early days when the energy market went from a single monopoly government entity to multiple suppliers, there were a lot of dodgy door to door salesmen and women getting older people to switch suppliers without them even really knowing or understanding it. I always liked the "everyone else on your street has switched so why not you?" approach. My answer wasn't printable, but I normally just requested details of their rates and standing charges and said I would get back to them. I never ever showed them any bills as they had a habit of taking the required details, then forging signatures and just switching you.

At least everything going on line and COVID has stopped all that nonsense.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Mate I am on a local keyboard because my son broke my UK layout and I have to wait for amazon to send one through from Germany. And my reading glasses have gone walk about..

Now do I change the layout to the one it actually is and my fingers have no clue where half the keys are or force the computer use UK layout and fly it blind?

They are at the same stage here with the swap over as you describe of the early days in the UK... Its just the locals aren't as savy to all the ploys like we are. Or the techniques for getting rid of them.

I even had one of them nearly in tears saying "but I have been told I have to get you to do this".

"Well that's really your problem not mine"

"But they are going to take my wages and fire me if I don't"

"I wish you every success in your next career have a nice day" and shut the door..

They stood outside for over 10 mins not knowing what to do.

 

[RedSnake]

Lost your senile strings again ;-)

/A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[LittleInch]

"I wish you every success in your next career - have a nice day" Classic - I'll have to try and remember that one the next time I get something similar.

The pressure put on sales personnel to make sales is truly awful sometimes and it can take a hard heart sometimes, but needs to be done.

I can foresee a string of law suits in Texas that the people concerned didn't know what they were signing up to.

Like every other financial type scandal / mis selling the world over.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[davefitz]

What is bizarre is the pricing system encourages gaming of the system, rewarding bad actors and punishing consumers. The same peculiar unregulated pricing scheme led to the 2001 california power crisis, where the unregulated IPP plants would scheme to schedule outages ( planned and announced and also unplanned an unannounced) to cause the supply to become well short of the demand, causing the bid price to skyrocket, and leading to enourmous profits for those IPP plants remaining in service for that day. The next day , a different IPP would scratch the back of the other IPP plants , forgo profits for one day while ensuring enourmous profits for others . The end result was an exquisite milking of the consumers.In the end, the federal govt enacted federal regulations prohibiting such schemes, but ERCOT may be immune from federal regulations.

There are reports now that some consumers that normally had a monthly bill of $347 USD recieved notice that the new bill for the 4 days is over $17,000 USD. This caused a lot of folks to change their underwear that day.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick