The Best Pricing Model for non-FEM Structural Software - KootWare 5

[KootK]

The Mission

While I'm still above grade, I intend to create a suite of pay for play, online structural engineering tools (KootWare). And I feel that a big part of making this questionable venture a success -- or at least improving the odds of a contained failure -- will be arriving at a good pricing model. Frankly, this is something that I feel that other developers have done poorly, to their detriment. As such, I'd like to solicit feedback from the hive with respect to the pricing models that I'll propose below and any possibilities for improvement.

The Basics of What You Need to Know About the Offering

1) 100% online offering. No option for a local, perpetual license version.

2) The goal here is not to get rich. The goal is to extract enough income from this that I can justify pouring a lot of effort into a project that I expect to enjoy a great deal.

3) Spit balling, if I could create enough value that I could convince 1000 SE's to part with $5/month, that would be enough. Or any other combination of numbers that gets to the same place. How many software using structural engineers do we think exist in North America anyhow? Sixteen? Eighty thousand? I really don't know.

4) Think something along the lines of TEDDS, ENERCALC, or Jabacus on steroids. I do have ideas for, in my opinion, greatly improving upon these offerings. I'd like that to be a separate conversation however. For now, make a leap of faith and just assume that it will be awesome.

5) I intend to attach some manner of structural only, online forum to the offering. While it would be a free-form space for conversation, as Eng-Tips is, it's ostensible purpose would be to provide a place for me to provide responsive help to anybody designing stuff utilizing the software. Thus making the whole thing even more fun for me. This would be offered in addition to the usual help guide and verification manuals etc <-- edit added per skeletron's comments.

Some Obvservations that I Have Regarding the Pricing Models of Others

6) For software of this type, I feel that a monthly subscription pricing scheme would not be well received. As a small outfit my self, I loathe taking on any additional "monthlys", no matter how great the ROI seems to be. I'm always afraid that I'll use it twice and forget to cancel. I doubt that I'm the only one who feels this way.

7) I also don't think that a straight "pay per use" model is the way to go either. Design is an iterative process and software licensing needs to reflect that. Sadly, I don't just design a shear wall once. I probably design it half a dozen times before all is said and done. And I can't be losing my shirt on pay per use while going through that process.

8) One has to assume that anything that can be abused, will be abused. This will prevent me from being quite as customer friendly as I would otherwise wish to be. My own IP halo gets a little dirty from time to time so no judgement here.

Pricing Model A

This is my favorite of the two and would appeal to me as a customer. Keep in mind than none of the particular values are set in any way. It's really more about the structure at this point. That said, if anybody has thoughts on what the numbers ought to be, I'd welcome that too. I figure I'll adjust as use data starts to pile up but I'll still have to start somewhere.

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Buy yourself some quantity KootWare credits. $10. $100. Whatever. Little gold doubloons in your digital purse.

3) To access the retaining wall tool for use, you pay $5. After the first run, you have the lesser of 20 additional runs or 60 days to keep using the tool on the original $5. One "run" would represent one execution of a full design with detailed output. <-- added per skeletron's comments.

4) If you want to share your account login and credits with somebody else, that's your prerogative. Share it with your coworker, a school chum in Brisbane, your aunt... retaining walls for everybody on that original $5. But, no matter who's using, it taps out after 20 runs or 60 days.

Pricing Model B

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Buy yourself some quantity KootWare credits. $10. $100. Whatever.

3) You can use any tool your like, for free, but you can't get a detailed printout for your calcs until some money has changed hands. The software would tell you the basics of what passed and what failed and would allow you to save your file to the system for future retrieval. I kind of like this in that it would allow one to essentially do their preliminary design work for free. I could allow folks to printout their inputs in case they were worried about my going bankrupt before they get to IFC.

4) When you've got all your design settled and ready for final calc documentation, it's $5 per print. The trouble with this is, I couldn't let the user see the detailed printout ahead of paying for it. Otherwise, I'll wind up with a bunch of folks just doing screen capture etc.

 

[Brad805]

There is a article on the STM method used by Dr. Yun in the ASCE. This method would seem to have simplified the creation of the model (and programming aspect) by using a uniform nodal system. I would be curious if any are using this?

While the payment part of this discussion is important, I think it is more important what solutions are provided. If you develop some well thought out solutions to unique problems like I am sure you can, I will pay a lot more than if it is the same old generic solutions you can find on any number of sites.

 

[glass99]

KootK: If you were going to attempt an evolutionary structural optimization (ESO) package, it would possibly be easiest as an add on to an existing FE package like SAP or Strand7. We wrote an API in Strand7 that does ESO in a couple of days for a project, and using the tabular input you can iterate with ESO within an hour. Its really quite fun - you get all these Michell trusses emerging algorithmically.

 

[rotw]

KootK,

Will there be something like KootCommunity, a sort of basic forum where your registered users will exchange and share their knowledge?

As corollary, will it be a community discussing KootWare topics only or will it be enlarged to any structural engineering topic in other to leverage on the concentration of knowledge that yields from the user's base presence ?



Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning dance in the rain.

 

[BUGGAR]

Back to the pay model, there was a time when we charged computer use time to the client. I don't see why I couldn't just pass any subscription costs to the client. Off course we do this for hard costs like renting diving equipment, etc. Does anybody still do this with computers? The pay model could be whatever the client prefers.

 

[Agent666]

BUGGAR, it happens indirectly being more wrapped up into overall fees I think spread over all projects, fees cover overheads such as software etc and profit expected.

Asking an engineer to record time spent on a particular software so it can be charged directly back to a particular project... good luck on that, I had enough trouble in the cube farm just remembering what I worked on and the actual hours each week when I got around to doing my actual timesheets...

 

[BUGGAR]

I was thinking you would "sub" the license to the client who would be billed directly. Such as when you have a Geotech on the team but his contract is with the owner. We have done this where the owner is responsible for the BIM model, with the consultants as contributors.
(let the owner get tangled up in licensing)

 

[KootK]

There is a article on the STM method used by Dr. Yun in the ASCE. This method would seem to have simplified the creation of the model (and programming aspect) by using a uniform nodal system. I would be curious if any are using this?

This is the first that I've heard of it. I'm curious but not yet curious enough to purchase the paper...

While the payment part of this discussion is important, I think it is more important what solutions are provided. If you develop some well thought out solutions to unique problems like I am sure you can, I will pay a lot more than if it is the same old generic solutions you can find on any number of sites.

1) I agree, developing the right tools is critical. Got any great suggestions? I've got a running list of about thirty ideas right now and am perpetually on the hunt for more. I'm hoping to eventually assemble a steering committee of sorts that I can reach out to to help me generate and vet ideas. As much as possible, I'd like the development of KootWare to be something of a communal activity. If anyone following this thread would be interested in participating in something like this, I'd very very much like to hear from them.

2) I actually see the pricing scheme and the tool development as being intimately related. My perception of things is that most of my would be competitors are assuming a model like this:

a) Engineers will procure access to at least one, full FEM package (ETABS, RISA, BENTLEY, etc).
b) Engineers will supplement(a) with one, comprehensive, element design software package Enercalc, Vitruvious, etc).

I think that the second part of that model forces an all or nothing kind of thinking where anybody entering that space feels compelled to prove the full complement of "same old generic solutions" as you mentioned. By offering a la carte tool purchasing, I'm hoping to avoid this trap and set things up such that potential customers could use Kootware for the handful of things that they find truly useful without having to make an all or nothing decision to abandon their other tools in favor of KootWare. In this way, I hope to be able to make non-generic, powerful tools without being saddled with the burden of having to re-develop all of the generic, simple stuff that's already out there.


HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[KootK]

KootK: If you were going to attempt an evolutionary structural optimization (ESO) package, it would possibly be easiest as an add on to an existing FE package like SAP or Strand7. We wrote an API in Strand7 that does ESO in a couple of days for a project, and using the tabular input you can iterate with ESO within an hour. Its really quite fun - you get all these Michell trusses emerging algorithmically

.

That's a great idea and I agree, it sounds like great fun. Somewhere above, I think that I mentioned that one avenue I'd like to explore is developing tools meant to piggyback upon FEM software database output. So somewhat similar. If you can spare the time, I'd love to hear a little more about your project. I've never known any of the evolutionary algorithm stuff to rear it's head in the context of an actual project. It usually just academic / sport stuff.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[KootK]

Will there be something like KootCommunity, a sort of basic forum where your registered users will exchange and share their knowledge?

KootCommunity... I like that. There will absolutely be something like that as it's a big part of the overall vision for a few reasons:

1) It's just something that I'd love to do from a personal perspective.

2) It would add a dimension of user support that I suspect would add a great deal of value to the KootWare product.

3) It would add a dimension of user education that I suspect would add a great deal of value to the KootWare product. Somewhere above, somebody else alluded to this as well.

As corollary, will it be a community discussing KootWare topics only or will it be enlarged to any structural engineering topic in other to leverage on the concentration of knowledge that yields from the user's base presence ?

It would be the latter: a space to discuss all things structural while still providing an avenue to discuss KootWare usage, bugs, and future development specifically.

A couple of additional thoughts on this:

4) Ideally, I'd not have the KootWare forum operating in competition with the other two forums that I participate in (Eng-Tips & SimpliEngineerng). I intend to reach out to those groups and see if some kind of symbiotic relationship can be established such that I'd be using existing forums for this purpose. It's hard to say how well that outreach would be received however. The forums do currently provide space for users to discuss specific software packages but it's not like I've got the clout of ETABS or RISA etc.

5) Another avenue related to this is that I'd also like to provide space for me and others to generate some manner of training modules. Webinars, white papers, etc. Things that, ideally would allow for the earning of PDH's etc. I've really not fleshed this aspect of things out in any detail yet however. I just know that non-academic engineering education is something that I'd very much like to get into if I can swing it.


HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[glass99]

Re: optimization: Our Sheldon Concert Hall project in St Louis is just being finished now. Its laser cut 1/2" plate steel, tensioned to a perimeter frame. It will have vines eventually. It was developed with custom optimization algorithms in Strand7.

 

[KootK]

Wow! I get panicky when I have to do just perforated metal cladding design. This probably deserves it's own thread for discussion.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[BUGGAR]

Whatever your scheme, will you never sell out, or retire, or....
I still lament GenericCadd, Microsafe, etc.

 

[glass99]

GenericCadd - clear cause of business failure = horrific branding. Sounds like Geriatric CAD

 

[KootK]

Whatever your scheme, will you never sell out, or retire, or....

The plan, as I see it today, is to neither sell out nor retire. My expectation is that I'll enjoy it so much that KootWare would serve as my passion project throughout my retirement. That, combined with my participation on Eng-Tips & Kootcommunity. And travel, family, fitness... blah, blah, blah. Ideally, when my run is over, I'd hand the thing off to a worthy successor or a group of such. I already know of some other Eng-Tippers that would make great heirs apparent. To sweeten the deal, I'd also throw in the world's greatest, in-print collection of structural engineering books (mine).

All that said, it has occurred to me that it might be naive of me to think that I'll always feel as I do now. If I find myself 85 and finding it a chore to maintain Kootware then, sure, I'd consider selling. As I said previously though, I'd probably be pretty selective to whom I was selling the thing.

One aspect of my plan with KootWare may well make it unsalable however. I'm not going to give Kootware away but, beyond a modest income threshold, I mean to start dropping the price rather than raking in more dough. If I could swing it, I'd also make it free for folks willing to tolerate advertising. Long story short, KootWare's not likely to every look like a revenue juggernaut on paper even if I manage to get it to point where I'd be viewing it a successful venture.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[rotw]

KootK,

Would you also put in your website an 'About' tab whereby you would provide a Resume-like page, so people could appreciate your experience, maybe also see your photo, etc. Or would you go for low profile about this and instead provide a general 'support' mailbox or, if you incorporate, just provide a description of KootWare Ltd.?

Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning dance in the rain.

 

[rotw]

glass99,

Re: optimization: Our Sheldon Concert Hall project in St Louis is just being finished now. Its laser cut 1/2" plate steel, tensioned to a perimeter frame. It will have vines eventually. It was developed with custom optimization algorithms in Strand7.

Maybe a stupid question from my side, but just to satisfy my curiosity...was this 'custom' optimization dependent upon the initial conditions (if any)?
Would another seed would have given a different outcome (means different mesh but still satisfying structural criteria, etc.)?

Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning dance in the rain.

 

[glass99]

was this 'custom' optimization dependent upon the initial conditions (if any)?

Yes it was given a seed mesh which was generated by the architect using whats called a Catmull Clark algorithm. The first challenge was to take a basically non-structural mesh geometry and let it find load paths. The process was also to some degree manually guided - the optimization got stuck between iterations sometimes, so we had to manually add a few elements and straighten a few load paths. The opening around the door was almost entirely algorithmic though. It started with a rough rectangle and generated this smooth bulb shape.

 

[Agent666]

Off the general topic...

Interesting scheme glass99, while the algorithm no doubt results in an optimised use of material in its final location, I can't help but think cutting all those shapes/nodes out of plate or something must result in a poor use of any raw plate materials (sort of offsetting its cunning use of material). Curious if waste material generated or the amount of fabrication/welding required factored into the overall algorithm, or was it purely a final in-place optimisation based only on strength/deflection/other criteria?

Seems like a bit of a shame to grow something over the mesh and hide it from view if you ask me!

 

[glass99]

cutting all those shapes/nodes out of plate or something must result in a poor use of any raw plate materials

We had about 97% material removal during laser cutting, hopefully all of which was recycled! The true optimization was in elevating the human spirit, not in weight saving (sorry this is so off topic).

 

[KootK]

Would you also put in your website an 'About' tab whereby you would provide a Resume-like page, so people could appreciate your experience, maybe also see your photo, etc. Or would you go for low profile about this and instead provide a general 'support' mailbox or, if you incorporate, just provide a description of KootWare Ltd.?

Honestly, I don't know. I have conflicting thoughts on this:

1) With respect to forum participation, I feel that I'm at my best with some degree of anonymity. I'd be loath to find myself in a situation where, as a software vendor, I'd feel compelled to tone my posting down a bit to avoid offending potential customers. In fact, I'm not sure that I'd be capable of that even if it were my intent.

2) If I want real businesses to be real Kootware customers, I can't see denying those folks the right to know who they're dealing with and what that person's background is.

3) I currently offer some engineering services at ridiculously low rates simply because I enjoy the work and want to encourage more of it (modelling, lateral stuff, peer review, spreadsheet development). I may, or may not, wish to use Kootware as an avenue to promote those services as well as the software. If I decided to do that, I'd obviously need to provide access to my background and credentials.

Luckily, at current pace, I'm literally years away from having to commit to anything on this. First comes the basic site setup and the roll-out of a suite of free tools. If you've got suggestions on this, however, I'm all ears...