The Best Pricing Model for non-FEM Structural Software - KootWare 5

[KootK]

The Mission

While I'm still above grade, I intend to create a suite of pay for play, online structural engineering tools (KootWare). And I feel that a big part of making this questionable venture a success -- or at least improving the odds of a contained failure -- will be arriving at a good pricing model. Frankly, this is something that I feel that other developers have done poorly, to their detriment. As such, I'd like to solicit feedback from the hive with respect to the pricing models that I'll propose below and any possibilities for improvement.

The Basics of What You Need to Know About the Offering

1) 100% online offering. No option for a local, perpetual license version.

2) The goal here is not to get rich. The goal is to extract enough income from this that I can justify pouring a lot of effort into a project that I expect to enjoy a great deal.

3) Spit balling, if I could create enough value that I could convince 1000 SE's to part with $5/month, that would be enough. Or any other combination of numbers that gets to the same place. How many software using structural engineers do we think exist in North America anyhow? Sixteen? Eighty thousand? I really don't know.

4) Think something along the lines of TEDDS, ENERCALC, or Jabacus on steroids. I do have ideas for, in my opinion, greatly improving upon these offerings. I'd like that to be a separate conversation however. For now, make a leap of faith and just assume that it will be awesome.

5) I intend to attach some manner of structural only, online forum to the offering. While it would be a free-form space for conversation, as Eng-Tips is, it's ostensible purpose would be to provide a place for me to provide responsive help to anybody designing stuff utilizing the software. Thus making the whole thing even more fun for me. This would be offered in addition to the usual help guide and verification manuals etc <-- edit added per skeletron's comments.

Some Obvservations that I Have Regarding the Pricing Models of Others

6) For software of this type, I feel that a monthly subscription pricing scheme would not be well received. As a small outfit my self, I loathe taking on any additional "monthlys", no matter how great the ROI seems to be. I'm always afraid that I'll use it twice and forget to cancel. I doubt that I'm the only one who feels this way.

7) I also don't think that a straight "pay per use" model is the way to go either. Design is an iterative process and software licensing needs to reflect that. Sadly, I don't just design a shear wall once. I probably design it half a dozen times before all is said and done. And I can't be losing my shirt on pay per use while going through that process.

8) One has to assume that anything that can be abused, will be abused. This will prevent me from being quite as customer friendly as I would otherwise wish to be. My own IP halo gets a little dirty from time to time so no judgement here.

Pricing Model A

This is my favorite of the two and would appeal to me as a customer. Keep in mind than none of the particular values are set in any way. It's really more about the structure at this point. That said, if anybody has thoughts on what the numbers ought to be, I'd welcome that too. I figure I'll adjust as use data starts to pile up but I'll still have to start somewhere.

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Buy yourself some quantity KootWare credits. $10. $100. Whatever. Little gold doubloons in your digital purse.

3) To access the retaining wall tool for use, you pay $5. After the first run, you have the lesser of 20 additional runs or 60 days to keep using the tool on the original $5. One "run" would represent one execution of a full design with detailed output. <-- added per skeletron's comments.

4) If you want to share your account login and credits with somebody else, that's your prerogative. Share it with your coworker, a school chum in Brisbane, your aunt... retaining walls for everybody on that original $5. But, no matter who's using, it taps out after 20 runs or 60 days.

Pricing Model B

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Buy yourself some quantity KootWare credits. $10. $100. Whatever.

3) You can use any tool your like, for free, but you can't get a detailed printout for your calcs until some money has changed hands. The software would tell you the basics of what passed and what failed and would allow you to save your file to the system for future retrieval. I kind of like this in that it would allow one to essentially do their preliminary design work for free. I could allow folks to printout their inputs in case they were worried about my going bankrupt before they get to IFC.

4) When you've got all your design settled and ready for final calc documentation, it's $5 per print. The trouble with this is, I couldn't let the user see the detailed printout ahead of paying for it. Otherwise, I'll wind up with a bunch of folks just doing screen capture etc.

 

[KootK]

That could be said for almost every tool ever created.

And has been in this context. Don't worry, I don't expect everyone to have read every post of this lengthy thread.

1) Tools that are simple but clean and powerful and meant to be used by the competent. I don't want the software to be an engineer for you. I want the software to enable the snot out of your being a great engineer. It's an arsenal that you combine, with your own tools, into a whole. It's never trying to BE the whole.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[Sandman12]

I just read through this entire thread and must honestly say that I am incredibly excited about how this thing could turn out! (regardless of pricing model).

For me, Option D makes the most sense. Where do I sign up!

 

[BUGGAR]

Kootk,
Regarding your response, I think your stm idea is hot and I will play with my suspension analysis to see if it can dance to your tune. I guess an angled control arm can emulate a concrete strut or tie. And they both have to be moveable and measurable. But ACI has rules I don't have to follow!
Gawd, I love this stuff.

 

[KootK]

I just read through this entire thread...

That in itself is an impressive feat. I couldn't even get my wife to read the whole thing. And she's a structural engineer who's retirement plans probably hinge on the outcome of this.

and must honestly say that I am incredibly excited about how this thing could turn out! (regardless of pricing model).

Thank you very much for your input and the encouragement. I wish that there were presently a way to sign up. You know, while I've got a little market place momentum going here. But, alas, it could be a while. I'm gradually assembling a cadre of folks that I'll be using as focus group however. You know, what tools should be created, how work flow should be arranged, look and feel. If anybody wants in on that action, I'd certainly welcome the help.

I think your stm idea is hot and I will play with my suspension analysis to see if it can dance to your tune.

Fun. Let me know if there's anything that I can do to help.

But ACI has rules I don't have to follow!

That's kind of the irony of STM. The ACI checks that one needs to apply are dirt simple. Almost laughably so. It's just all the labor that goes into the geometry of the setup that makes it so laborious.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[BUGGAR]

"geometry of the setup that makes it so laborious." AGREED!
I don't want to detract from this post. Would a side post on ACAD or Excel be appropriate to address this?

 

[KootK]

I don't want to detract from this post. Would a side post on ACAD or Excel be appropriate to address this?

I think so. Feel free to post a link to that thread in this one if you wish.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

Apologies for not getting in on this sooner but I've been busy both with work and with my own side-endevours (taking my commercial pilot checkride Tuesday, going to try to become a part-time flight instructor on the side).

Overall I highly support this for many reasons. First, small scale engineering tasks are BY FAR the most time consuming when you think about it. This is why engineers create our spreadsheets and mathcad files so we can automate that weld calculation or that development length calculation. When I get a new project that has a new reoccurring task I google for spreadsheets or open source software that might automate it once I've got the hang of the calculations. If none exist then I run the mental cost-benefit analysis of either 1) buying software that does it (if it exists) 2) making my own spreadsheets to tackle it, or 3) just keep running hand calcs.

(1) Is by far the best long-term but is often overkill for smaller engineering tasks and often the software is very expenses because it tries to do so much with that software. This is great for a structural design suite like RISA or ETABS but sucks when all I want is to design a bolted connection ~10 times a month. Thus, I'd be more than happy to pay for an option between (1) and (2) especially if it was something that I could see a large suite of tools but only pay for what I need.

In short, I'd pay for these and the cost would be almost entirely erased by added profitability. I also hadn't thought about your concept of learning from the software since I actively try to avoid doing this. That said; it would be quite nice if this was a practical thing to do and would not only help people use your software effectively but I'd likely use your software more just to learn new things.

I've read through most of this and I was similarly struggling with the pricing systems proposed until I got to the option (D) scheme. This seems more than ideal. I'd offer the following addition to it:

Pricing Model D, Rev 1

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Each module allows one day for free.

3) Purchase semi-unlimited runs, 30 day access to the tool that you're interested in for $5. Let's say that it's the retaining wall module. Semi-unlimited being something like 300 runs or something high where the casual user would never run into the limit.

4) If someone hits the limit then they can purchase unlimited runs for $20 for the next 30 days.

5) No auto-recurring payment BS unless you specifically ask for it.

6) If you want to share your account login with with the entire world such that everybody gets to design some retaining walls on KootK's dime for 30 days on the same $5, go nuts.

This does a number of things. Gives great flexibility and utility for the small-firm, the target audience. It provides a way to limit abuse where someone at a mega-firm buys one copy for $5 and then has 5,000 engineers around the world using it. It provides an additional tier of income so large and medium size firms pay you a bit more (they can easily afford it and the value and utility are still there).

Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL, CO) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)

 

[KootK]

Thanks for the input TME.

With regard to usage at larger companies, it strikes me that I'll be doing something counter-intuitive with respect to strategy. Normally, you'd probably want to get users at smaller firms and then hope to be able to grow with them as they turn into large firms. I kinda see the opposite happening. I'd love to see some folks develop an addiction to Kootware at larger firms and then, when they decide to step out on their own, they take Kootware with them out of familiarity and an appreciation for the value proposition.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[GWoodPE]

I haven't read through all of the other responses, but since you are just looking for feedback I figured I would give mine to your original proposal. I don't like pricing option A or B because they both seem like pay per use to me and I also like to be able to see the details of the analysis as I'm working through it. And that is my biggest issue with some of the software out there now, there isn't enough transparency in the actual calculations. I'm sort of opposed to pay per use because it feels like its adding cost to every project at that point. And per use per module starts to feel like nickel and diming me.
I don't have as much issue with the yearly subscription model, as long as there are continuous updates. In fact I would be more inclined to think a one time perpetual license thing might still work if its just based on a single code cycle. Maybe that doesn't work as well with the online software though. For instance, here is your ASCE 7-16 load calculator, its a one time $500 purchase, but you get to keep using it and it will be updated as necessary until the ASCE 7-22 version comes out.
I'm also not completely sold on the online software concept though due to the potential for data loss and data storage issues. But maybe that's just a workflow/process issue that requires some adjustment.

After reading a little I found model D. Not so bad.
Is there not anyway to lock an online program to a single user or computer. Maybe not otherwise netflix would have done it I guess.

 

[KootK]

Thanks for your input GWoodPE. I'd not expect any new comers to read through the entire thing.

After reading a little I found model D. Not so bad.

I'm glad you found that. It evolved as a result of many other people echoing concerns very similar to yours. Namely:

1) Nobody wants to feel nickel and dimed.

2) Everyone seems to have a high level of concern for quality, detailed output.

Is there not anyway to lock an online program to a single user or computer. Maybe not otherwise netflix would have done it I guess.

If there is a way, I don't know of it. But I am hardly an expert. You're point about Netflix is salient though.

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with the direction in which I'm headed here but it is very much my intention to set things up in a somewhat unconventional way. Specifically:

1) No recurring fees unless desired.

2) No hardware locks etc.

3) Al a carte tool availability.

4) Encouraged account sharing.

I don't need -- or expect -- to have the entire market. I just need a little corner of it populated by the like minded.



HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[Celt83]

@KootK:
attached is an html template file I thru together after working thru various tutorials over my own venture down this path, including some graphs. Also put some comments in there as to where I think the back end script/program would need to populate the information. May not be what your going for as far as look/feel, hopefully a little helpful for you in getting a head start on some things.

Open Source Structural Applications:

https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering

 

[skeletron]

Not sure how applicable this is, but if you are looking for another gob of market research look into the "plugin" market for digital audio production. This whole discussion reminds me of the pros/cons of different plugin developer's fees. And the intent of the project (ie. have a high value bundle for low cost) has similarities too.


...but I can't recall if I have ever solved that problem yet.

 

[AaronMcD]

I just found this and tbh don't have time right now to read through all this.

I personally like monthly even though you said it's out of the question. The thing is, $30/month doesn't seem like much. I choose to spend a small amount, and I'm done worrying about money.

OTOH, $5 per use, even if it's cheaper, FEELS like a lot more because I have to agonize over spending a fee and then later another fee, and then another and another, and oh but how many times will I need to do this?

Like all you can eat feels better than going and paying for every bite even if paying per bit is cheaper.

http://www.hellodwell.design

 

[KootK]

I just found this and tbh don't have time right now to read through all this.

- Thank you so much for your input.

- At 178 comments, nobody has time to read through it all. No worries there.

- I've asked the mods here if they'll let me modify the original post so that commentors only have to read that to know what they need to know. We'll see if that takes.

- Through hard earned consensus, we've pretty much arrived at a new model "D" that definitely seems to the winner. I've repeated it below.

- In a very real way, I will have to just accept that whatever pricing model I choose won't be for everybody.

OTOH, $5 per use, even if it's cheaper, FEELS like a lot more because I have to agonize over spending a fee and then later another fee, and then another and another, and oh but how many times will I need to do this?

Part way through the thread, I had to clarify what I meant by a "run" as it pertained to pay per use. Rather than pay per single run of the software, it was pay for the lesser of 20 runs or 60 days usage. The idea being that it's really "pay for completed design" of an element or group of elements rather than paying for each individual run of the program. Maybe this would improve things and maybe not. Regardless, I think that you'll like option D better.

With Pricing Model D, shown below, it's basically pay for a month's use of each tool. The end. If you want it as recurring payment, so be it. If you want multiple tools purchased at once and recurring, that works too.

For someone with your preferences, I would see this panning out as this:

1) Identify the subset of available tools that are useful to you.

2) Set up a monthly subscription to the al a carte suite of tools that you've chosen for yourself.

How do you like that?

Pricing Model D

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Purchase unlimited run, 30 day access to the tool that you're interested in for $5. Let's say that it's the retaining wall module.

3) No auto-recurring payment BS unless you specifically ask for it.

4) If you want to share your account login with with the entire world such that everybody gets to design some retaining walls on KootK's dime for 30 days on the same $5, go nuts

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[KootK]

attached is an html template file I thru together after working thru various tutorials over my own venture down this path

That is helpful, thank you. Would you have the wherewithal to deliver similar apps via web pages? If so, stuff like your strap beam tool would be very close to what I'd like to accomplish.

May not be what your going for as far as look/feel, hopefully a little helpful for you in getting a head start on some things.

As far as look and feel goes, I've identified a target: ASDIP. While there is a great deal that I intended to do very differently compared to ASDIP, I very much like where that guy has taken things with regard to the look and feel of the website, the look and feel of the apps, and the quality of the reporting.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[Celt83]

Would you have the wherewithal to deliver similar apps via web pages?

Not yet, have a long weekend coming up with some time earmarked for an attempt at something small scale.

The ASDIP programs look nice, from the screenshots and videos I like the level of documentation and the graphics are simple but informative.

Open Source Structural Applications:

https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering

 

[KootK]

So... for anyone still paying attention, I could also use some feedback on potential product naming. Specifically, "KootWare" is too goofy for me to actually use it right? That's what my gut's telling me even though I want KootWare pretty badly. 99% of the customer pool would not be familiar with this discussion and would probably be put off by the name I'm guessing. Koot is too close to kook I think. And not many would want a crazy eccentric supplying their design software, even if that would be fairly accurate.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[Agent666]

Koot is a mildly derogatory term of sorts in this part of the world, like "that old koot is crazy as batshit". Just saying, you're already there .

I got some ideas of names from online name generators when naming some software offerings to fellow workmates, just throw in a word(s) you want to use and it'll present 1001 iterations and suggestions. But kootware sounded fine to me all along.

I see its still avaliable, meaning someone can steal your thunder if you do go for your original suggestion.

 

[TLHS]

ElectronicNomograph.com

Honestly, for branding it's likely better to just say something clear. Unfortunately, the obvious ones are all long gone as product names (StruCalc, iStruct, SECalc, EngCalc, DesignCalc, StructTool, WebStructures, StructWare, etc)

Something like StructDC for "Structural Design Calculations" or throw your actual name or initials in there <XX>Struct or <XX>Calc or your existing business name with a suffix. You want something someone will immediately be able to tie to calculations or structural engineering. You also want it to sound solid for people submitting calcs to third parties.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

You also want it to sound solid for people submitting calcs to third parties.

This is probably the biggest reason not to do "KootWare"; despite it being a really fun sounding name.

Ian Riley, PE, SE
Professional Engineer (ME, NH, VT, CT, MA, FL, CO) Structural Engineer (IL, HI)