The Best Pricing Model for non-FEM Structural Software - KootWare 5

[KootK]

The Mission

While I'm still above grade, I intend to create a suite of pay for play, online structural engineering tools (KootWare). And I feel that a big part of making this questionable venture a success -- or at least improving the odds of a contained failure -- will be arriving at a good pricing model. Frankly, this is something that I feel that other developers have done poorly, to their detriment. As such, I'd like to solicit feedback from the hive with respect to the pricing models that I'll propose below and any possibilities for improvement.

The Basics of What You Need to Know About the Offering

1) 100% online offering. No option for a local, perpetual license version.

2) The goal here is not to get rich. The goal is to extract enough income from this that I can justify pouring a lot of effort into a project that I expect to enjoy a great deal.

3) Spit balling, if I could create enough value that I could convince 1000 SE's to part with $5/month, that would be enough. Or any other combination of numbers that gets to the same place. How many software using structural engineers do we think exist in North America anyhow? Sixteen? Eighty thousand? I really don't know.

4) Think something along the lines of TEDDS, ENERCALC, or Jabacus on steroids. I do have ideas for, in my opinion, greatly improving upon these offerings. I'd like that to be a separate conversation however. For now, make a leap of faith and just assume that it will be awesome.

5) I intend to attach some manner of structural only, online forum to the offering. While it would be a free-form space for conversation, as Eng-Tips is, it's ostensible purpose would be to provide a place for me to provide responsive help to anybody designing stuff utilizing the software. Thus making the whole thing even more fun for me. This would be offered in addition to the usual help guide and verification manuals etc <-- edit added per skeletron's comments.

Some Obvservations that I Have Regarding the Pricing Models of Others

6) For software of this type, I feel that a monthly subscription pricing scheme would not be well received. As a small outfit my self, I loathe taking on any additional "monthlys", no matter how great the ROI seems to be. I'm always afraid that I'll use it twice and forget to cancel. I doubt that I'm the only one who feels this way.

7) I also don't think that a straight "pay per use" model is the way to go either. Design is an iterative process and software licensing needs to reflect that. Sadly, I don't just design a shear wall once. I probably design it half a dozen times before all is said and done. And I can't be losing my shirt on pay per use while going through that process.

8) One has to assume that anything that can be abused, will be abused. This will prevent me from being quite as customer friendly as I would otherwise wish to be. My own IP halo gets a little dirty from time to time so no judgement here.

Pricing Model A

This is my favorite of the two and would appeal to me as a customer. Keep in mind than none of the particular values are set in any way. It's really more about the structure at this point. That said, if anybody has thoughts on what the numbers ought to be, I'd welcome that too. I figure I'll adjust as use data starts to pile up but I'll still have to start somewhere.

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Buy yourself some quantity KootWare credits. $10. $100. Whatever. Little gold doubloons in your digital purse.

3) To access the retaining wall tool for use, you pay $5. After the first run, you have the lesser of 20 additional runs or 60 days to keep using the tool on the original $5. One "run" would represent one execution of a full design with detailed output. <-- added per skeletron's comments.

4) If you want to share your account login and credits with somebody else, that's your prerogative. Share it with your coworker, a school chum in Brisbane, your aunt... retaining walls for everybody on that original $5. But, no matter who's using, it taps out after 20 runs or 60 days.

Pricing Model B

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Buy yourself some quantity KootWare credits. $10. $100. Whatever.

3) You can use any tool your like, for free, but you can't get a detailed printout for your calcs until some money has changed hands. The software would tell you the basics of what passed and what failed and would allow you to save your file to the system for future retrieval. I kind of like this in that it would allow one to essentially do their preliminary design work for free. I could allow folks to printout their inputs in case they were worried about my going bankrupt before they get to IFC.

4) When you've got all your design settled and ready for final calc documentation, it's $5 per print. The trouble with this is, I couldn't let the user see the detailed printout ahead of paying for it. Otherwise, I'll wind up with a bunch of folks just doing screen capture etc.

 

[KootK]

I suggest a payment scheme should be $5.00 per month for each main program group, with unlimited input modifications.

Thanks for your contribution to this PT99. I'd be happy to charge $5 per month for the whole thing, and would prefer that actually. The difficulty for me is policing that. Unless I get into standalone programs and hardware keys etc, I risk having the entire eastern seaboard using a single, $5 Kootware subscription. And I don't see monthly usage frequency being such that "only one person in the pool at a time" would serve as much of an impediment to this. It may well be that there's a technological solution to this that I simply haven't thought of yet.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[Celt83]

...I feel as though this could be comfortably accomplished in six months or less of concerted effort. ...

Something like Jabacus you could probably knock out in a couple weekends, just speaking to the calculation pages, the subscription/payment system could take several months to make sure you have all the security issues covered.

Do you know what programming language your shooting for, that decisions may also impact the time till launch?

Open Source Structural Applications:

https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering

 

[KootK]

"KootWear by KootWare"

Ha! I hadn't even thought of this myself. Given the input that I've received in this thread so far, it sounds as though starting my own clothing line might actually be an easier business venture to take on.

I see the main market appeal to me as having access to a design tool that both teaches me how to perform the needed calculations and provides the speed/accuracy of a software solution.

Thank you soooo much for that statement and, really, that entire post. It's pretty much made my day to hear someone else view the value proposition of this similar to how I see it. Your comments have also helped me to crystallize my own understanding of the "vision":

1) The product will be a symbiotic combination of software design tools and educational content. The educational content will help to sell the design tools and the design tools will provide a platform for presenting educational content. The educational part is really my second favorite thing so this is bloody perfect.

2) This business model is essentially a version of business to business (B2B) consulting. As such, I need to be not just a seller of faceless "product" but, rather, a peripheral business partner to the folks that will be my clients. I think that #1 is a big step in the right direction towards accomplishing this goal.

3) All that I really need from a pricing model, is for it to eliminate pricing model aversion as a reason for potential customers to stay away. I don't really care what the model is so long as folks are willing to give Kootware a try and the use experience leaves them feeling that ROI was favorable.

I can live without the graphics but would want the printed calcs for both education and project documentation

This is probably the most commonly voiced recommendation in this thread so far: detailed output. I get it, I agree with it, and I'm going to provide it. That said, based on my past programming experiences, I can see why this is probably a difficult thing for developers. Generating detailed, dynamic reports can be very onerous. The beauty of software is that it can generate 7000 pages of output in a second. But, then, the "ugly" of software is that you may be stuck with 7000 pages of output. It seems to me that I'll probably need to rope in some kind of 3rd party reporting tool. If anyone has suggestions for that, I would like to hear them.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[KootK]

Do you know what programming language your shooting for, that decisions may also impact the time till launch?

I'm still trying to sort this out and welcome any recommendations. It's tempting to start with VB.net because I know it fairly well but, at the same time, I'd much rather invest some time learning new tricks than make poor choices in this regard.

I've found some job ads for developers at companies that do similar things. Based on those, there seems to be a common suite of languages required (java, jquery, python...) and, unfortunately for me, none is VB.net.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[Celt83]

some kind of 3rd party reporting tool. If anyone has suggestions for that, I would like to hear them.

ReportLab
LaTeX

neither are intuitive but in my research into creating output that isn't an un-formatted txt file each google dive into the type of technical output I would want eventually lands me at either of their doorsteps.

Open Source Structural Applications:

https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering

 

[Ron247]

But, then, the "ugly" of software is that you may be stuck with 7000 pages of output.

Some of the more popular programs I wrote for myself, that later I gave to friends of mine had to do with taking 7,000 pages of output and condensing it to something I needed (2 or 3 pages). They were usually very short programs that iterated the output files. I called STAAD years ago (1994 or so) and asked if they could change Finite Element to where you input a panel or wall section name and then that panel was then subdivided into the FE mesh. I wanted to get the max/min Mx, Fy etc for each wall section for both my written documentation and for manual checks. STAAD told me not to worry, STAAD would print all the values. I would then say, "That is the problem, I do not want all the values, just some". We seesawed back and forth, me saying I do not want them, they saying it gives me all of them so need for what I was asking for.

I wrote a brief Fortran program that allowed me to create a FE panel based on element numbers, scanned their output for the elements and printed only what I was asking for. It found the Max and Min of each force type (My, Fz etc), printed which element had the Max & Min and then printed the others forces simultaneously present at that element. Now, most programs have more refined output but not all of them.

 

[Celt83]

take this all with a grain of salt since I'm clearly biased on the language front and so far have only done a couple months of my own research on web development stuff. Here's what I've found:
Most everything I've looked at follows the Model-View_Controller setup

working thru some early tutorials you need working knowledge in the following, along with your chosen language:
HTML
CSS
Javascript
likely some form of database language MySQL, Access, etc.
language and controller specific formatting for when the controller spits back results

Languages that seemed popular:
Ruby on Rails
Python with Django or Flask
PHP
ASP.net
Node.js
Angular
Java/Javascript (I lumped them here but don't think that's really the case in the wild think they can actually be independent back end languages)

I chose Python on the desktop side because with a couple minutes of googling was able to find a ton of pre-built stuff to extend it's use to what I was trying to program and a lot of tutorials to build off of. SciPy and NumPy being the big ones.

Some helpful free tools:
Chart.js - can give you some nice charts assuming you don't want anything complicated like dual axis plotting.
Plotly - another charting library has some slick realtime controls.
Bootstrap - free quick CSS/HTML/Javascript templating, can save you some time on getting one style applied uniformly over the site





Open Source Structural Applications:

https://github.com/buddyd16/Structural-Engineering

 

[Agent666]

I want to make a graphics bases strut and tie modelling tool of such ease of use as does not currently exist to my knowledge.

CAST by University of Illinois?

 

[KootK]

take this all with a grain of salt...

Thanks for that. Expect me to tap your expertise in much greater depth when the time comes.

CAST by University of Illinois?

Yes, as a model T to my eventual Maserati GranTurismo. I hope to take it out of the academic exploration zone and into the production engineering zone.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[sticksandtriangles]

If you can get a strut and tie tool up and running that works well... I would open up my pocket book for sure.

S&T

 

[rotw]

KootK,
In regard to your pricing approach, what if you provide some modules for free and charge for other modules. But the module you charge will be much higher than 5$/month.
For example you provide 10 modules.
[A]-> 5 modules are free and show excellent features and extremely useful function.
-> 5 modules are described to user (maybe with a demo) and provide advanced calculation features; this is where you put all your know how and differentiate from the competition. Experience with [A] + Demo with would leave the user frustrated they cannot get full access to .
That is the part you charge at high mark up (a between 50 to 100$/month)
What do you think?

 

[KootK]

@rotw:

- there will definitely be some free tools for various reasons.

- in this space, I think that even $50/month/tool would be far too much. $50/month would be closer to the "full access to all tools" number I think.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[KootK]

If you can get a strut and tie tool up and running that works well... I am would open up my pocket book for sure.

Coming to an internet near you...2032.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[WinelandV]

Koot, you need to advance that schedule by 12-13 years. ;-)

 

[jayrod12]

Coming to an internet near you...2032.

You know some of us plan on retiring at some point.

I know I haven't chimed in on this, I'm unfortunately not a decision maker at my firm when it comes to spending money on software, however I have converted almost 100% of the designers to Jabacus from doing everything the old fashioned way, so if I can get a bunch of people on board with the free stuff, I can probably liberate some funds for teh modules.

My personal preference if it were my money would be pricing model C.

 

[KootK]

Koot, you need to advance that schedule by 12-13 years.

You know some of us plan on retiring at some point.

The STM thing will be much, much harder than the rest. To do it as I think it needs to be done, will require significant graphical system development the likes of which I currently have no idea how to do. As such, it's at the back of the line for development although I'll probably chip away at it continuously. Also, even as cool as I think this would be, I really suspect that the market for such an STM tool would be quite small.

I have converted almost 100% of the designers to Jabacus from doing everything the old fashioned way, so if I can get a bunch of people on board with the free stuff, I can probably liberate some funds for teh modules.

Even just word of mouth help on getting folks familiar with my versions of the same, free tools would be an enormous help when the time comes.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[WinelandV]

Also, even as cool as I think this would be, I really suspect that the market for such an STM tool would be quite small.

The lack of STM analysis/design, IMO, stems from the lack of a good tool. For the most part, designing a beam is straightforward with shears and moments. If that analysis wasn't easy and useful, we'd probably design beams some other way. If you create a good tool, maybe you really kick-start the STM analysis movement.

 

[KootK]

Through the course of this discussion, my thoughts have coalesced around a new pricing model that is really just a slight, but important, modification of Pricing Model A. I'll still offer a monthly subscription to the entire suite for those that want that but the model described below would be the one that I build around and attempt to encourage.

Pricing Model D

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.

2) Purchase unlimited run, 30 day access to the tool that you're interested in for $5. Let's say that it's the retaining wall module.

3) No auto-recurring payment BS unless you specifically ask for it.

4) If you want to share your account login with with the entire world such that everybody gets to design some retaining walls on KootK's dime for 30 days on the same $5, go nuts.

My Thinking

A) Very simple and easy to understand.

B) No real worries about the need for design iteration unless one feels that they can't be done in 30 days. Or 60 days etc as makes sense.

C) Because pricing is tool by tool, I think that someone attempting to game the system would have to go to rather a lot of trouble to accomplish that. You'd basically need to coordinate with a whole bunch of friends also seeking to design retaining walls in the same 30 day period. I feel that the hassle associated with doing this to save a couple of dollars would dissuade 95% of my target customer base from bothering in the first place. Instead, I think that my target user would mostly just share the account with their immediate colleagues until all of the retaining walls for a particular project had been designed. And that's actually how I want KootWare to be used. If you happen to have three projects on the go all needing retaining walls in a given month, and the cost per project drops to $1.67, all the more power to you. If you're happy, KootK's happy.

What do you guys think? We like this??

I had originally approached this in a miserly fashion assuming that I needed to make abuse impossible. And that strategy required some unfortunately sacrifices. Now I see that I only have to make abuse improbable. And that makes some interesting things possible.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235

 

[WinelandV]

1) Create an account at KootWare International and add a credit card, paypal etc.
[…]
4) If you want to share your account login with with the entire world such that everybody gets to design some retaining walls on KootK's dime for 30 days on the same $5, go nuts.

Could we get a guest access login instead? I'm maybe a touch paranoid, but I'm not down with people logging in and having cc access, even if it's just to purchase more Koot modules.

 

[KootK]

Could we get a guest access login instead? I'm maybe a touch paranoid, but I'm not down with people logging in and having cc access, even if it's just to purchase more Koot modules.

Maybe not. This might be just the way to prevent gross abuse. Credit card exposure forces one to only share their account with people that they trust a fair bit.

The particular form of abuse that I'd like to prevent would be this:

1) Somebody signs up for all of the modules, every month.

2) That somebody provides or sells guest access to the whole world.

3) Now the whole world can use Kootware and I'm only bringing in $300/month ($5/month x all tools).

4) The only limitation on abuse is that only one user can use Kootware at one time. Unfortunately, I don't see this being much of a deterrent for Kootware as the whole thing will be built around highly intermittent use to begin with.

Yeah, this may frustrate some managers who would like to be able to be able to provide tool access to employees without giving them the ability to spend on the credit card. But, then, maybe that's a reasonable trade-off for some gross abuse deterrent.

HELP! I'd like your help with a thread that I was forced to move to the business issues section where it will surely be seen by next to nobody that matters to me:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=456235