The future of women in Engineering... 17

[rconnor]

PhilBW and others, it is vital to this discussion that we realize this is not purely about equaling gender representation in various industries. What this discussion is about is the deterrents, whether they be institutional (old-boys club), cultural (gender roles) or other, that limit the number of woman in highly valued fields of employment as it relates to the more broad perception of woman in society (i.e. they are undervalued).

There is a huge difference between them. However, it’s easy to dismiss the conversation as a non-issue if we continue to conflate the two.

So as to your comment about why aren’t we having the same conversation about the lack of men in the field of nursing, the issue is not that there is a discrepancy in gender representation. The issue is that there is an over representation of woman in nursing and an under representation of woman as doctors, which comes with higher pay and more social status. Despite the fact both these positions are in the same field and should attract the same sort of people, there is a noticeable difference between the two. (a surface level response would be that the extra schooling required to become a doctor is difficult if a woman wants to start a family but I believe the issue is much deeper than this) Now, as Kenat pointed out, the medical field has seen a marked increase in female doctors in the past generation and brings up a good question of how they were able to achieve this.

My response to this would be that there is very little impact of gender roles in deterring woman from becoming doctors. In fact, “taking care of people” (if I can dissolve the field into such a simple statement) would be more of a female normative than a male. So, as the more overt forms of sexism become less and less, the doors become open for woman to enter the field. (this is not to say we can dust our hands of the issue in this industry, there is still more work to be done…but it appears to be moving in a positive direction)

In contrast, and as I have stated before, engineering/technology fields have to not only deal with institutional sexism but also cultural sexism, which can be much more subtle and difficult to address.

 

[cranky108]

I think part of what gets passed off as sexism is the notion that any women can do the job of any man. And while it is true that some women can do some of the jobs occupied by men. It is not true that any women can do the job of any man. In fact, most men can't do some jobs that other men do. Example: I would not be very good as a firejumper, I'm just not built for that (I'm also too old), and it would also be true that some women would not be able to carry a 35 lb pack 5 miles in under half an hour.

It would also be true that some women, can't do engineering, or even want to. So to me all this decision on occupation should start in high school with the guidance person. The problem I fear is the guidance people may not be very well trained, and could be the first point of discuragement, or push into the wrong direction.

After all I was never allowed to take home ec in high school, but offered several different sports, none of which I liked (I sat on the bench a lot).

 

[JohnRBaker]

While I can't recall any 'guys' taking Home Economics when I was in high school, I did take typing my senior year, which was almost as bad.

You have to remember that this was back in 1964/65, well before personal computers so most people considered typing not something one of the 'guys' would be interested in. Of course, in retrospect, it was perhaps one of the only classes where I can honestly say that I learned a 'skill' that I now use everyday, that is the ability to 'touch type'. Now I was never all that fast and while I did get an 'A' in the class, it was just a single semester of Typing I, so the words-per-minute requirements to get an 'A' were not all that high, but that ability to 'touch type' has stayed with me and of course is being practiced and reinforced daily.

Note that I also took all the normal 'guy' classes like woodshop and such, and while I was never a 'jock' I did work the 'chain-gang' at football games which gave you one of the best views of the action, at least at the home games.

As for that typing thing, my younger brother, one year behind me, took two full years of typing and became very good at it. So good in fact that he claims that it saved his life. You see, when he graduated he decided not to go to college but with Vietnam starting to heat up and the draft board breathing down his neck (I avoided the draft by enrolling in ROTC while in engineering school), he decided to enlist to get a better deal and when the Army found out that he could type 70 words a minute, they offered him a place in the intelligence corp, which ostensibly was a non-combat position. But as they say, don't believe everything the recruiter tells you, as he ended-up serving two tours in Vietnam but being military intelligence he was given a position working undercover as a free-lance photojournalist (his typing skills helped with his cover) and he never even had to wear a uniform, but he did get shot once however it was only a 'flesh-wound' (he still got his Purple Heart).

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
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Siemens PLM Software Inc.
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[SNORGY]

To this day, since my high school typing class in 1974, I can still type 30 very gross words per minute.

 

[msquared48]

Never could get over 20. Heck, I don't even know 10!

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

[KENAT]

Funny, barely passed the 25 wpm required for RSA1 typing back in school.

Last time I checked I was at 45 wpm and I'm pretty sure I'm a little quicker than that though with my crummy accuracy maybe not.

I also took sewing at one point at school when most of the other guys avoided it (initially until they decided the sewing teacher was better than another stint in pottery!).

What can I say, I'm a true Renaissance man;-).

(Is the fact we're talking about typing speeds in this thread in and of itself sexist?)

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[cranky108]

I don't perceve any of these classes as sexist, however at the time my peers did, and that was and is a problem. However that is not as big of a problem as teachers that can't make learning fun. Any class that the kids feel is fun will be a popular elective.

So where are the teachers that can make Physics, and Chemistry fun? That's how you should inspire kids to become engineers. Even Auto Mechanics (not auto repair) can inspire kids into engineering.

 

[SomptingGuy]

I really enjoyed our cookery (home economics) classes. Not so sure about needlework, although my Mum still uses something I made when 12. Everyone did a spell of everything during our 1st year at secondary school.

- Steve

 

[SLTA]

THIS. Read it all... it's long but explains it so well.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/magazine/why-are-there-still-so-few-women-in-science.html

 

[weldstan]

KENAT,
I'm still at 25 wpm. Kids today phone text at 50 wpm, I cannot do 2. Eleven years ago I gave my son a flexible key board and a palm pilot to take notes in 10th grade; he types at 140 wpm.
Getting back to women in Engineering, back in the late '60's our school of Engineering had 1200+ students, 6 of whom were women - needed two hands to count them! So if women are now 10% of the engineering students, that's an increase of 2000% - not bad, maybe.