The great resignation 19

[MIStructE_IRE]

The pandemic has given me a change of perspective and a change of life priorities. That, in conjunction with engineer’s anxiety and sleepless nights sweating over calculations has me questioning whether or not I want to do this for the rest of my life.

Has anyone else experienced this?

What is a sensible alternative career for a structural engineer?!

 

[dik]

I think IRS point (if I may be presumptuous) is that, "It's something that you are passionate about." I cannot think of a finer ending, myself.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Guest090822]

MIStructeE-IRE: 95% of all engineering disasters happen during construction, not design. I don't know how they do things in Ireland, but most structural firms in the USA have people checking each others work. I used to mentor a lot of junior engineers and had many come to me over the years telling me they couldn't handle the stress of the structural design setting. I encouraged many of the young lads to try something like inspection, maintenance or construction. Most ended up having very successful "changes".

 

[dik]

...and it's not usually from a tight design, but from something overlooked or constructed improperly,

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[bridgebuster]

"different strokes for different folks". More power to you dik.

As the opening line from old TV show said "There are 8 million stories in the naked city". When I think about those guys, some of them didn't know the key is not to retire from something rather retire to something.

 

[dik]

or having finished a nice glass of Scotch...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LittleInch]

That, in conjunction with engineer’s anxiety and sleepless nights sweating over calculations

For me I've never come across this. This is what quality control, checking and oversight is there for. No one person should ever be in a position to be wholly responsible for something that would ever cause a failure that would imperil anyone.

Anything grossly wrong will get picked up and for the rest, it's often addressed in construction or in fact shows how over designed most of what we do is.

But everyone's different and if this is causing you issues now, it is unlikely after what 15 years?, then it might not go away and in fact get worse as you gradually become more and more senior and responsible for picking up everyone else's mistakes.

So what to do? No one here can really tell you other than have a good look around, remind yourself that the grass in general isn't any greener in any other field, it's just different grass. Retraining at 40 with two small kids isn't easy, and it doesn't sound like you have some burning desire to be a Gard or a fireman or something, so like others have said is construction your game ( often a long way away, loads of time pressures and everyone wanting a high quality, cheap and fast project) or a job in the council or the planning authority ( lower wages, often poor promotion opportunities) checking or commenting on designs.

What type of structural engineering really do you like doing?

And after all that you might decide that actually you have it pretty good now - you just need to work out ways to stop worrying about details and calculations that are not your responsibility once someone else has reviewed and signed them off.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

MIStructE_IRE -

I think this is the constant struggle of the young engineer. I loved studying engineering in school. I graduated and found out there was a ton of stuff I didn't know. I enjoyed learning it, even if the hours could be long. Since I was young, little was expected of me, so the responsibility wasn't so high that it became too stressful.

As I began to gain experience, the responsibility and the stress increased. Stamping your own drawing and being the engineer of record on major projects is a huge step. Especially when so many projects are fast paced on a tight budget.

Some people thrive on these sorts of projects. I'm not one of them. At least not anymore. Now that I'm in my late 40s, I just can't work the kind of hours that I did before. My body starts to break down a bit if I push myself like that.

Now, many of us have taken a detour with our careers. Some go into engineering sales or become technical representatives for engineering products. I'm in software, but I have good friends that I went to school with or worked with that have moved onto Hilti, the APA, AISC, Simpson or such. I talked to someone who pivoted early on to law school with the hopes of becoming a lawyer for the construction industry. I know people that went into project management for construction companies or went to work for steel detailers. Plan check engineers for cities, private companies, OSHPD or DSA.

There are all kinds of options that closely relate to structural engineering that don't require the same type of day to day work of a "production" engineer. So, you have options.

 

[bones206]

I think the pandemic and working remotely have taken more of a toll on us than we realize. Communicating mostly via email and messenger apps is just not good for the soul over the long run. Getting out and speaking face to face with people, working things out on a job site or around a conference table, can go a long way towards maintaining sanity in this profession. It helps maintain healthy relationships with people vs. the toxicity that electronic communication seems to promote.

These are just personal observations with respect to myself, as I have also been struggling with motivation and stress in recent years. Now that the pandemic has eased in my area, interpersonal interactions have become more routine again, and I've realized just how important a role they play in regulating my emotional state and keeping myself grounded. Too much time exclusively pounding away on the keyboard has some really insidious effects over time.

 

[JStructsteel]

@Bones206,
I disagree, I think the pandemic showed we dont need to be cubical prisoners. Working from home allowed me to maximize my time. If I needed to mow the grass before it rained at 5pm, i did. I didnt have to spend 30 mins getting ready, then 30 mins driving to work, etc. I could go directly to work, maybe a nice coffee break a couple hours later, then a nice lunch I didnt have to buy. If I felt a nap was in order, then I did. Still hit my schedules, etc. There is no reason we have to work 9-5.

There are days I will go without talking to my boss. Might get an email from him, but sometimes I never cross paths with him at work. Just how it is.

Im 100% considering quiting my job and just doing what I want to do.

 

[EngineerJack]

MIStructE_IRE -

Your post pushed me off the sidelines and I finally registered as a member, so thank you.

I have seen similar post on the symptoms you described and I also have that same anxiety, it has to be an almost universal feeling for structural engineers. Two of the "smartest" (highest GPA) people that I graduated school with have left the design field entirely - one is a highschool teacher, and the other is in policy making for a water district. Or you can do what I did and simply start your own design firm. I found that the majority of my stress wasn't centered on the calculations or the time frames but was caused by the complexity of the people I worked with and the stress of trying to keep everyone else happy - in a word - Politics. My theory now is to not worry so much about the corporate climb (not much climbing to be done now anyway) but to find people that I enjoy working with, dont do dumb stuff (have you seen the old UBC codes there so basic and buildings are still standing), learn to say 'no thank you' and to keep in mind that years of school, exams and verified experience has prepared us to do this kind of work.

Cheers,

 

[Aesur]

Have you considered becoming a "designer" in the sense of you create your own company where you market yourself as a designer level drafter to other engineers. You could probably command reasonable fixed fees and I bet many engineers on this forum would be happy to have someone doing 1099 work for them. A good designer is worth their weight in gold, especially one who understands the engineering side and load paths.

 

[IRstuff]

one is a highschool teacher, and the other is in policy making for a water district.

That may have nothing to do with anything discussed here, unless it really wasn't their passion. We had a new hire at my first job, so going on 40 years ago, who graduated 4.0 GPA BSEE from UC Berkeley. And he could clearly do the work, but he had ZERO interest in it, i.e., it wasn't his passion and likely did it to keep his parents happy; 5 years after, he quit and went to work in the family restaurant. As with sustaining a flame, which requires fuel, heat, and oxygen, job success similarly requires ability, passion, and opportunity; the lack of any key component can result in all sorts of negative outcomes, from just quitting to suicide.

I knew I wanted to be an engineer, albeit EE, since I was in 7th grade, but had I lacked ability or opportunity, I might be a lawyer or something equally dark ;-)

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[bones206]

@JStructsteel - Fair enough, I don't disagree with any of the positive points of WFH. I worked remote for a year before the pandemic and still am for the most part, and the flexibility and freedom is a tremendous benefit for sure. But for me at least, I have to admit that from a motivational and engagement standpoint, the lack of human interaction with coworkers, clients and contractors has had a corrosive effect. With the pandemic hopefully receding and having more opportunities to interact, I am feeling a bit more engaged and less of an anonymous keyboard commodity with a PE stamp.

 

[EngineerJack]

The guy who became a teacher kept a 1/4" x 3/4" sticky note over the clock of his computer monitor so he wouldn't keep counting down the hours till he could go home, and I think most sane people would agree with that if they even ran ACI RD.4 by hand as was required by our employer at the time. We were both coming from grad school after running a lab and being generally well respected by your peers and professors, while only really having to run a few calcs for exam practice and study interesting things here and there to make the grade and be "successful." Then coming into the real world where the work never ends, its really hard to justify your career path when you just spent 7 hours in pure silence running a calc for one anchor bolt. Then tomorrow knowing that there's another six bolt groups to do and your probably going to have to write an excel spreadsheet over the weekend to get them all done in time and who knows if the boss is going to be mad about that, and the QC/VV that has to be done with a program etc... I don't blame him a bit.

I justified it as a continuation of my education, and that I was building a tool set - not a super fun tool set but still the tools I needed for the career. I think its shocking for most EI's to get out of school pass the FE, heck even the PE and realize that its still so much larger than your education and the mentors aren't necessarily nice or appreciate your visit during office hours like they did in school. Lump all that in and years later still having to play nicey-nice politics in a typical corporate office environment/manila envelope, I almost started cutting down sticky notes. WFH has shown me that its not the career its the people, get around the right people and it will be better.

 

[WARose]

Have you considered becoming a "designer" in the sense of you create your own company where you market yourself as a designer level drafter to other engineers. You could probably command reasonable fixed fees and I bet many engineers on this forum would be happy to have someone doing 1099 work for them. A good designer is worth their weight in gold, especially one who understands the engineering side and load paths.

I've thought about switching to designer myself. In the last 10 years, it's gotten to the point where I can lay it out better than them. (It was different at the beginning of my career. I wish those guys were still around.)

Only one small problem: I'm not that good of a drafter and I don't know 3D software.

 

[LittleInch]

The real trick here it seems is to find something closely related to what you do know that has fewer downsides and more upsides.

At 40 you are probably actually better than you think you are and in reasonable demand. Companies though want to know why you want a particular post and not just why you don't like your current role / company / position. Get to 50 and it's a different environment altogether.

I was part of a smaller growing company a few years ago and recruiting senior leads. Many could tell us in detail why they wanted to leave whatever company they were with, but not why they wanted to join ours. Only when you have a good story to tell will you get somewhere. IMHO.

but good luck and let us know where you're going with this.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[KootK]

Get to 50 and it's a different environment altogether.

Can you elaborate on that? I'm curious since I'm now closer to 50 than 40. My perception:

1) At point where I'm fairly expensive relative to what I produce.

2) Not enough time left on the clock for me to occupy a leadership role for a meaningful length of time.

3) More mature folks tend to be less energetic than the rookies for valid, if non-PC, physiological reasons.

Not all of these things are true in all situations but that's my perception. My wife is involved in the hiring of senior engineers so I've had a bit of a window to it through that.

 

[LittleInch]

Well maybe 55, but yes, all of those things in my experience.

Also as you get further into the years of experience, you tend to do less and less actual engineering and more reviewing and overseeing, at least where I'm at - not true for everyone of course. So if what you actually need is someone to crank out some calcs, reports, drawings etc from a more or less blank screen, then I wouldn't normally go for the >55 person and I'm one of them!

These are wild generalisations of course, but the point was that at 40 you are a prized asset that companies can still take and mould a bit, get 20 odd useful years of work out of you at a decent cost and don't have to spend much on training. 50+, the opportunities gradually start to go into inexorable decline.

I joined a new consultancy group at 49 as I saw it as the one last decent chance to be in a growing firm and a chance to be in at the start point. Didn't work out mainly due to the oil price slide of 2014/2015 ($120/bbl to $60/bbl in 6 months, then even lower) causing all the firms to stop all projects and killed the consultant industry, but then started life as a consultant for hire as I knew I didn't want and not many people would want me starting on the management ladder again. Best move I ever made. But if that option wasn't available to you then you are kind of stuck once you get to the 55+ mark for sure.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[KootK]

Thanks for that LittleInch.

 

[KootK]

Another career transition that I've considered is switching to geotechnical engineering. Simpler product to deliver, no architect headaches, and more "sciencey" on a day to day basis I feel. Maybe I would pick up a masters in geo part time before transitioning and, after a few years, be back to 80% of my current earning capacity.

In all my travels, I can't say that I've ever heard of an SE going geo. And I've always wondered why that is.

Were time and money no issue, I might shoot for the fences and become an astrophysicist. Target one of the five available jobs like my life depended on it since, nowadays, I kind of see that it does with respect to job satisfaction.