The plan for Australia. Sorry no engineering content A Simple Challenge 2

[GregLocock]

Our new government's follow up to

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=492616

"For example, to achieve Australia’s emissions reduction target of 43% by 2030, it’s estimated that we will need to install about forty 7-megawatt wind turbines every month until 2030.

For solar, while Australia is a global leader in deployment, we still need to install more than 22,000 five hundred-watt panels every day – and 60 million by 2030."

https://minister.dcceew.gov.au/bowen/speeches/towards-clean-and-secure-energy-future-indo-pacific

So let's do the dismal task of putting some $ on this pie in the sky nonsense.

Wind turbines cost about $1.3million US ($2M AUD) per MW. Solar costs about $1/W.

So our eminent politician says that we need to spend 280*12*1.3 +11*200 million a year, about $6.6 billion (US) a year. but, we'll also be phasing out baseline powerstations, so we'll need storage as well. We also need power lines, lots of them. Generously assuming that'll only double the cost, $13B a year, about 1% of GDP. Every year. To make 0.0% difference in global CO2 emissions.

I give it until 2027.


Cheers

Greg Locock


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[TugboatEng]

Russia: make the world dependent Ukraine nuclear and then invade Ukraine.

China: make the world dependent on Taiwan composites and the invade Taiwan.

I think I'm starting to see a pattern.

 

[dik]

Doing good... from Wiki...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

That graphic does not represent progress towards the legislated goal in GL's post...

 

[dik]

Just data, Tug... Australia is up near the top of the list on a per capita basis. The real kicker is not to produce more 'green' energy, but to seriously cut back on the fossil fuel stuff we are already using.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

I could count the number of farts I make in a day and call it "just data". That's true about what it is but that doesn't make it relevant to a conversation.

 

[dik]

I believe you, Tug... even if you say you are trying to improve the life of the hearing impaired.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

I'd look at that statistic differently ... you reckon you'll spent (waste) 1% of GDP on green energy, and make little to no difference to the atmosphere.

I reckon 1% wastage in government is a bargain !

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[LionelHutz]

Where does 200 come from? 11 is 11MW of panels per day or $11 million of panels per day. What is 200 though, there are 365 days in a year. Is every day of the year really meaning working 4 days a week and having 2 weeks of holidays? That would make the reality actually requiring installing about 12k panels a day.

 

[GregLocock]

I assumed 200 working days in a year.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[SwinnyGG]

Just data, Tug...

I could count the number of farts I make in a day and call it "just data".

Are you two going to have the same slap fight in every emissions related thread until the end of time

 

[dik]

No fight... I said I believed him... how did you come to that conclusion?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[rb1957]

it's sort of like watching a "Norwegian Fish Dance" (refer Monty Python)

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[TugboatEng]

Swinny, since the pub has decided that it is not the place for spirited conversation they have leaked into other places it seems.

 

[LionelHutz]

Well, it was determined you were being too much of an asshat in the pub but that discussion doesn't belong here.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

The Climate Change Engineering forum has a lot of "politics" associated with it. That's inherently a part of the issue or at least that's part of what's going to drive the solutions for the issue.

That's why this forum can get sidetracked into political discussions that more appropriately belong in the Pub.

Greg's post is an inherently political one. Talking about BS political goals related to reduction Global Warming. I take a more forgiving stance on the political goals than Greg does. Yes, a lot of that is political grand standing. I agree that a lot of it is unrealistic and won't get done. I see that here in California all the time.

Heck, in California they've vowed to outlaw gasoline powered cars by 2035.... We all know that's never going to happen. Heck, this isn't even the first time California has done silliness like this before. Just most people don't remember the law that said "10% of all cars sold in CA must be zero emission vehicles" that we had back in the mid to late 1990s. Why? Because it was withdrawn before it ever affected consumers at all. It was all political "virtue signaling" by politicians.

That being said, the effort that CA made in the 1990s MIGHT have put some political pressure on car companies to stop fighting so hard against efforts to develop electric cars. Ultimately, the industry came up with something much better for the consumer (hybrid cars) for the time being. Then Tesla proved that there is a genuine market for high end (and high performing) electric cars. We've just got to get to a point where the costs go down a bit before they will really take over. That takes time. We need more rare metal mines. We need better recycling of used batteries and such.

 

[Tomfh]

Heck, in California they've vowed to outlaw gasoline powered cars by 2035.... We all know that's never going to happen.

Do you think the people proposing such silliness know full well how silly it is? Do they propose it knowing it's impossible?

 

[CWB1]

Do you think the people proposing such silliness know full well how silly it is? Do they propose it knowing it's impossible?

Hard no. The politicians creating many of these proposals are only slightly more ignorant than ARB and EPA.

 

[dik]

When they are doing this now, it will be interesting to see how they react out of desperation.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

What desperation? It's all manufactured. Maybe, when the money dries up, they'll start pointing fingers in desperation. Perhaps Elon Musk is getting ahead of the curve as he always does.

Something to consider, if Europe pulls through this winter largely unscathed by outage doesn't that mean they were always capable of supporting themselves? If so, why were they buying so much energy from Russia?