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The public's view of our profession in the US 2

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65Roses

Automotive
Mar 24, 2004
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Recently I've read a lot about how the engineering profession is not viewed by the public like it used to be. The authors of these articles speak about how we have lost ground to other professions such as doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc, in the eye of the public. These authors (for example NCEE representatives) go on to blame the educational system stating the traditional 4 year undergraduate engineering degree is not what it used to be. They state today's degree is a watered down version of what was taught 30 or 40 years ago and that Universities need to add a couple more years of course work to the requirements of obtaining an engineering degree.

I think that is nonsense. I've believe our problem with how we are perceived by the public is how we conduct ourselves at work.

First of all start with the current dress code at most companies across the US today. An engineer used to wear a tie to work. The dress code these days seems to be dress casual. I frequently observe co-workers wearing t-shirts, blue jeans (worn out)and sneakers. Most don't even bother to iron their shirts anymore even if they do wear one with a collar. I also see co-workers who will go a week or so without shaving and others who rarely keep a neat and trim haircut. What kind of impression does this give to those who come in contact with us who are not engineers? I know in my factory most production asssociates can't distinsh a technician from an engineer and I suspect this is one of the reasons why.

Second of all I think some (not all) engineers have become complacent in their jobs. This again gives the wrong impression to those who we work with that aren't engineers. These associates often form a negative view about the skills of engineers and then pass their views about engineers onto family member, friends, etc.

Third engineers today are just considered staff to upper management. My father who has worked on the manufacturing line for nearly 35 years speaks of the days when engineers were considered part of management and were referred to as management. Now days we are just called staff. Our job has no prestige. Today we have salaried associates with no degrees or some sort of Bachelor of Arts degree higher up on the corporate ladder than all the engineers in the company.

Just my two cents on this topic. What is your opinion(s)?
 
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HgTX,
I agree that $ is the deciding factor in most situations, but I was somewhat put off that prestige should be a driving factor. I enjoy what I do, and prestige has nothing to do with it. Since I wasn't born rich, and I'm going to have to go to work to make $, I feel that the engineering field is one of the most rewarding (for me). Not only because of the $ involved, but because I am doing something I enjoy and find satisfying and am getting paid well to do it. My wages are drivin by the availability of my particular skill set, and my employment allows for the expansion of that skill set. It has nothing to do with how the general public perceives me or the profession, of which I couldn't care less.
 
Prestige isn't a bad thing, though. If you can get the $, and the joy of doing something fun, interesting, and worthwhile, what's wrong with prestige? And if there isn't something wrong with prestige, doesn't that mean that having prestige is better than no prestige?

People like to be appreciated. That's normal, not something to be reviled.

Hg

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I am not saying that prestige is a bad thing, just that it is not the best to base your choice of career on, and shouldn't be your primary reason to get into engineering.
 
Even if I was independently wealthy, I would still work part time as an engineer, because I get satisfaction out of doing a successful project. As far as lack of respect goes, I'm still trying to get respect from my engineer bosses and coworkers. If there is a "lack-of-respect" mentality in engineering, the villains are within our own ranks rather than with the general public.
 
If someone wants their profession to be more prestigous and have a higher salary for all does that mean they don't love their job and love doing their work?

I agree with EddyC's last post that I would like to do engineering no matter the money. However to say "who cares what people think" is letting down the team as far as I'm concerned.

Raising the status of the engineering profession will benefit all engineers and I consider it a duty.

If you can't see that raising the status of our profession will benefit it and can be done, then there is no need to argue.
 
In the interests of "doing my part" I have become licensed and am encouraging all design professionals that I interact with to pursue licensure. I have also guided them to the various review courses that are available.
 
Let's not confuse professionalism with personal views. One can be committed to working in a professional manner and one can be dedicated to their profession, which should in turn increase the perception and status of engineering. However one does not need to care about the public's opinion to have contributed in a positive way to our professions status, there is no conflict of interest in this stance.

As such I personnaly do not think that "not caring" of the public's perception is letting the team down, provided one maintains a professional manner and shows excellence, this is your duty. Your opinion on the publics perception after this is your own, whether you ultimately "care" or "not care" about public perception.

I promote engineering and a professional manner, have a good reputation and those outside of my field seem to always say "You must be smart, I couldn't do that" when they find out what my occupation is. Ulimately though, I still don't really care what the final perception of the public is, I work for myself, my family and my loved ones, not for societies opinion. This is my personal view, not my professional stance.

What has occurred along the way in this thread is that there has been a cross over from the original intent of SPSU97 thread:

Just my two cents on this topic. What is your opinion(s)?

Now there is an argument over promoting the professional image of our field while still trying to cross reference an opinion based stance.

Separate the 2, you'll probably find many arguments dissipate as a result.
 
vooter said:
I have found that tee shirts are pocket-protector unfriendly. That's why I wear "dress" shirts with strong pockets.

This is professional approach which knows what is useful for work and cares for the same. As for opinionated morons, let them choose their government, not my dress.

Ciao.
 
<<<I have found that tee shirts are pocket-protector unfriendly. That's why I wear "dress" shirts with strong pockets.>>>

I like wearing polo shirts so I went with a leather pen pouch that I carry in my back pocket. In the pouch I carry a pen light, six inch metal ruler, red pen for ECOs, black pen, mechanical pencil, and those long click erasers. To get even nerdier, I carry my PDA on my hip which I have spreadsheets to do repetitive calculations in vibration and heat transfer. Also data for screws (torque and size), structural stuff (young’s modules, yield strengths,…etc), and useful formulas in a variety of engineering fields. I even have the periodic table loaded on my PDA. It also has a scientific calculator and unit converter.

Ok back to the topic…
I am not looking for prestige, but an understanding of what our profession is all about especially the classical engineering fields like Civil, Chemical, Electrical, and Mechanical Engineering. It is more of when I tell somebody that I am a ME that the first thing that pops in their mind is a fancy car mechanic or a train driver. That the word engineer has been abused in titles like sanitation engineer (trash pickup) to customer service engineer (people who are just customer service but has no engineering skills) and so the public has been desensitized to the word engineer. So in the publics view, anybody can be an engineer by just adding it to the end of their title.


Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane
 
Some more info on our image in the USA...


From the artical:

"I was shocked when I arrived in the United States from Greece in 1980 to discover how misunderstood and undervalued engineering was among Americans and how little people knew about it. In the United States the engineering profession has suffered from an image problem. People who drive trains, collect trash, and fix VCRs are all called ''engineers." But the engineers I refer to are the people who build things -- from bicycles to bridges -- and make them work. Engineering, the process that creates technology, involves identifying a problem, designing a solution, testing and improving the design, and building the technology."


Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane
 
Even though garbage collectors may be "Sanitation Engineers" in the USA, I don't think there is a collective lack of respect. I do think that most people don't understand what engineering is, similar to me having no idea what a futures trader actually does for a living.
I do agree with EddyC...there is a huge lack of respect amongst peers. At least, I hope not in Eng-Tips Forums.
 
How many of us have had this experience:

By hook, crook or conversation, someone tells you what they do - and they're neighter an attorney, medical doctor, engineer, teacher, broker nor whatever - and they come off as though they completely expect you to know what it is they do.

Me: "So, Adolph, what line of work are you in?"

Adolph: "I'm a marketing director [everyone's a "director," right?] in the high-end veeblefetzer industry."

Me: "That sounds interesting. What exactly is that?"

Adolph: "Well, last year veeblefetzering, as an industry, had revenues in excess of $9 billion."

Me: "Wow! But, forgive my ignorance, what's a veeblefetzer?"

Adolph: "I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. We just had a cover story in Potzrebie Monthly. We market veberfetzering services to the motion picture editing services industry."

Me: "Oh, that makes sense. Me? I'm just a structural engineer. I mostly design waterfront structures."

Adolph: "I think I walked on one of those the other day..."
 
To go along with Sacrebleu's post, I was taken back when I saw the organizational chart for a property management company refer to their apartment maintenance workers as "chief engineer" and "engineer tech." I know they fix and replace HVAC units, patch drywall, fix and install plumbing hardware, etc, but why "ENGINEER?"
 
Opinions are like A$3holes... but....

In order for engineers to get a better wrap, we need to disassociate ourselves from our "jobs." Quit working as an engineer and start "engineering".

Don't get so caught up in titles... A "sanitation engineer" would not be such a big deal if we recognised that "engineering" is a verb and not a noun. Then we would see that "sanitation engineers mearly clean, not engineer cleanlyness, and the discrepency would go away." The word "design" did this for artists and architects.... now they get more respect.

Lets quit being engineers and start engineering solutions. Maybe revolutionary; but true.
 
I recently saw a poll of most "distrusted" professions... don't recall seeing engineers. I do recall seeing real estate agents, car salesmen, lawyers (tell me something I don't already know!).
 
In the UK:

The top 10 most respected professions, listed in order, were: doctor, nurse, teacher, fireman, paramedic, Army/ Navy/ RAF, scientist, ambulance driver, police officer, and care assistant.

The 10 least respected professions were: MP, estate agent, government minister, lawyer, journalist, footballer, advertising executive, car dealer, company director, and accountant.

MP being Member of Parliament.

Cheers

Greg Locock

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