The wheels are falling off the Net Zero bandwagon

[Tomfh]

Explain the difference between the US and Sweden? The number is about half... are their doctors twice as good? or are the people just a lot healtier?

To put the figures into context, about 995 out of 1,000 babies survive in the U.S., compared to 997 or 998 in Sweden—an extra 2 or 3 babies. Why do 2 or 3 more babies die per 1,000 in America compared to Sweden? It's impossible to pin down the exact contributing factors, but we can identify a few.

Sweden’s more comprehensive healthcare system likely contributes to some degree, but cultural difference matter too. You and Tug have discussed difference in different racial groups. But there are other factors too. E.g. Sweden has nearly double the abortion rate of the U.S., with more abortions performed for medical reasons than in the UCA. In the U.S., some of the babies who die after birth would have been aborted in Sweden, where a more selective approach is taken toward which pregnancies continue. This difference in approach influences infant mortality statistics, as fewer babies with serious medical issues are born in Sweden. In the USA, more of those babies get born, and die early in life, increasing infact mortality stats.

 

[PMR06]

I'm just glad that when the US finally spends $50 trillion on windmills, all of these problems will go away.

 

[dik]

Not at all... fossil fuels are the root cause; windmills don't address this problem.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

"Sweden’s more comprehensive healthcare system likely contributes to some degree"

That's likely the reason. Their healthcare and that of Scandinavia are likely what the difference is. Maybe the US should change?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

These are authoritarian socialist regimes. Doctors are punished for reporting too frankly on conditions. The official health figures should be interpreted accordingly.

Thank you! If Dik can't understand this, then it's because he REFUSES to even try. I won't trust any statistics that come out of an authoritarian regime.

That being said, I will acknowledge that many other countries have a "better" healthcare system by various measures. I would argue that ours is among the best at the most EXPENSIVE parts of healthcare. Complex surgeries, research on innovative treatments and new drug research.

It is also true that Cuba's totalitarian regime has focused on educating doctors. This is a PR thing. They educate them and send them to other countries as a way of demonstrating how "progressive" their system is. But, the poor people in Cuba do NOT have great healthcare. The communist party elites, on the other hand, have EXCELLENT healthcare.

 

[dik]

Not at all Josh... I consider the source. It's interesting that while Cuba's rates appear to be lower, that the Scandinavian countries appear to be much lower. They are hardly authoritarian regimes who fudge their data. Maybe the problem lies elsewhere.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Dik -

Yeah, the Scandinavian numbers are better. No dispute here. There healthcare system is likely better than ours. But, the point is that Cuba probably does NOT actually have lower mortality rates.


FWIW, what does this all have to do with Net Zero rhetoric falling apart even though the consequences of these policy have only barely even begun to be felt by the populace.

 

[Tomfh]

That's likely the reason. Their healthcare and that of Scandinavia are likely what the difference is. Maybe the US should change?

While differences in medical systems play a role, it’s not as simple as that being the primary factor. As others pointed out, disparities among demographic groups, such as higher infant mortality among disadvantaged Black populations, also contribute significantly. In Australia, a similar pattern is observed with Indigenous communities, where cultural practices like giving birth in remote areas increase infant mortality risks. The effect of black infant morality in Australia isn’t as statistically pronounced as the US though, because we have only a tenth as many disadvantaged Black people as the U.S., meaning the overall infant mortality stats aren’t as skewed.

As I mentioned, while 2-3 more babies per 1,000 die in America compared to Sweden, an additional 8 are aborted in Sweden, some due to medical reasons that could increase infant mortality if carried to term. In the U.S., there is a tendency to leave the fate of abnormal fetuses in God’s hands, resulting in more such cases appearing in infant mortality statistics. When a fetus with abnormalities is aborted, it impacts termination statistics rather than infant mortality figures.

 

[JoshPlumSE]

In the U.S., there is a tendency to leave the fate of abnormal fetuses in God’s hands, resulting in more such cases appearing in infant mortality statistics. When a fetus with abnormalities is aborted, it impacts termination statistics rather than infant mortality figures.

Like my friend's baby that died due to early development abnormalities. The US is a more "religious" nation than most. The desire to NOT abort babies with defects is likely significantly higher than in other countries.

I'll also point out that there are other "demographic" differences as well. We have a lot more obese people. Obese mothers are significantly more likely to have complications. We've got a very DIVERSE population compared to other countries. Lots of Black and Hispanic people. What percentage of people in Scandinavia are not Scandinavian in ethnicity? Maybe 20% total. In the US, we have lots of Africans, Hispanics, Asians. So much so that I believe in the US population, whites are no longer the majority (though still a plurality).

What's the point of mentioning this diversity? Well, it affects medical care. When your entire population has the same basic genetic background, the medical science is a bit easier to pin down. I bet they don't have much sickle cell anemia there. Do they? But, they may have a lot of skin cancer and may be much better at skin cancer prevention as a result of everyone sharing the same pasty skin color.

 

[GregLocock]

VW cuts back on EV battery factory builds

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/vw-scales-back-battery-cell-plant-plans-ev-sales-slump

Quite whether that means they'll be sourcing more from the home of human rights and green energy I don't know.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[waross]

Late to the party, but

Doctors are punished for reporting too frankly on conditions. The official health figures should be interpreted accordingly.

And Trump would never do anything like that.
That could never happen in Florida.
With the principle of "Academic Freedom" in mind it would never happen to a Professor who uttered anything considered contrary to his school's "Development Efforts". (Unpopular with major financial donors.)
NEVER in The US or Canada would anyone suffer punishment, restriction or suppression for reporting an "Inconvenient Truth."
(One man's sarcasm is another man's cynicism, with satire as a side dish.)

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[waross]

Just looking at my latest natural gas bill.
Cost of Gas $4.69
Carbon Tax $8.37
Green Energy Levy $0.14
Total price $13.20

There are pilot plants that are successfully extracting CO[sup]2[/sup] from the atmosphere and electrolizing water to obtain hydrogen.
The CO[sup]2[/sup] is then converted to methane with the addition of hydrogen.
The methane is further converted to gasoline or diesel fuel with the addition of more hydrogen.
There is one by product. OXYGEN!

Any source of energy may be used to drive the processes.
Is it expensive?
Yes, but I don't know how expensive.
However, my present cost to use natural gas is ($13.20/$4.69 = 2.8 times the cost of the gas, in the name of "Green".
I suggest that anything less than the equivalent of 2.8 times my present cost of natural gas would be cheaper to the consumer.
I have no sympathy with those who rail against the "High cost" of alternatives.
I am already paying almost 3 times the actual cost all in the name of "greening" something.
Yes I know. That is not the whole picture, liars can figure and there are other factors not mentioned,
BUT,
The same factors apply to the cries about the high cost of carbon mitigation, The whole picture is seldom considered.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[waross]

I had to look up "The Hume Highway" Greg.

Hume Highway
Highway in Australia
The Hume Highway, including the sections now known as the Hume Freeway and the Hume Motorway, is one of Australia's major inter-city national highways, running for 840 kilometres between Melbourne in the southwest and Sydney in the northeast. Wikipedia
Length: 880 km
Constructed: 1817
Highway system: Dual carriageway, National Highway, Highways in Australia

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[JoshPlumSE]

And Trump would never do anything like that.

I believe the main point is that Trump (or any US president) doesn't have the POWER to do that. At least not until we go further down the directly of dictatorship. The numbers we have are much more transparent. Reporters can interview state and local officials about their numbers and the methodology they used to produce them. The government, in general, must give specific guidance to hospitals and such about what and how to report.

Even then many of these types of studies aren't even done by the government directly. They're done by academic researchers at universities. Ergo, false numbers reported by the government will be outed reasonably soon. This sort of thing happens frequently. Wasn't there a recent report that there were 800,000 "new jobs" that the Biden administration reported earlier in the year that they admitted didn't exist when they "revised" the numbers down recently. The administration didn't do that because they wanted to. They did it because they didn't have the power to HIDE the new numbers.

There are pilot plants that are successfully extracting CO2 from the atmosphere and electrolizing water to obtain hydrogen.

Citation needed. I think you may be referring to pilot plants that extract CO2 EXHAUST from other power production. It's my understanding that the CO2 in the atmosphere is not concentrated enough to make extraction economically feasible.

 

[waross]

Citation needed. I think you may be referring to pilot plants that extract CO2 EXHAUST from other power production. It's my understanding that the CO2 in the atmosphere is not concentrated enough to make extraction economically feasible.

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Link to Full Article

See Also:
thread1618-507941

Towards the end of the Thread A post by TiC14

Years ago I worked as an intern at a company that tried to get this technology up and off the ground.
The process is quite simple. Use electrolysis that is powered by wind energy that would otherwise be curtailed - ala at nighttime - to produce H2.
Bring in CO2 via pipeline or other means, run a reverse water gas shift reaction:
H2 (excess) + CO2 -> CO + H2O
Use the produced CO and excess H2 to run a Fischer-Tropsch reaction
(2n + 1) H2 + n CO → CnH2n+2 + n H2O
I specifically worked with catalyst production for each reaction as well as building a lab setup to run and test these reactions.

Even with "free" energy from wind curtailment pricing, the projections were that this would only be cost competitive in the neighborhood of $110-150/bbl.

Looking at the ratio between Gas cost and gas carbon tax on my heating bill, I have to suggest that an artificial or equivalent price of $110 -$150/bbl, is easily attainable by taxation.
And The existing carbon taxes may be used to subsidize carbon neutral fuel.


--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[waross]

I believe the main point is that Trump (or any US president) doesn't have the POWER to do that.

I agree that Trump The President may not have the power to do that.
But on the other hand Trump, The Mean, Vindictive, Retaliatory, Unprincipled Politician does have the power and is not shy about using it.
How many careers has he torpedoed because he has imagined "Disloyalty".
What career survivalist will dare say anything that Trump may not like.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[waross]

Okay.
I won't sugar coat it any more.
I will just come out and flat out say I don't like the guy.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[TugboatEng]

It's too bad he didn't end Fauci's career.

 

[hokie66]

The other side of the hydrogen hoax. Just another scam by corporate lobbyists designed to take your money and mine.

https://www.euronews.com/2023/04/03...falling-for-corporate-lobbyists-hydrogen-hoax

 

[Tomfh]

Yes, Albo and Bowen fell for it completely. Bowen’s endorsement of Twiggy’s hydrogen as the cornerstone of our so-called ‘renewable superpower’ economy, backed by billions in subsidies, revealed just how hollow Bowen’s renewable vision truly is. The fact he’d latch on to something like that and throw vast amounts of taxpayer dollars at it. It’s like Jack and the beanstalk - with Bowen off spending our money on magic hydrogen beams…