How many have been the victim of lack of full disclosure by their organization in the interviewing process? Seems like things have gone from bad to worse in this area for me over the past couple decades. Everything from springing overly restrictive non-disclosure agreements on the day of orientation, to not telling me that seven day work weeks were the expected norm. Any tales to tell?
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Things they forgot to mention in the interview 27
- Thread starter tz101
- Start date
mfgenggear
Aerospace
trade schools in what ever discipline is great 4-5 years making good money
Sure, but a grand is probably what's needed to cover the basic travel time, amortization of materials and equipment, etc.
Aerospace companies bill out at up to $300/hr, but the actual worker is paid only about 1/3 of that; the rest is general & administrative, overhead, utilities, benefits, etc.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
Aerospace companies bill out at up to $300/hr, but the actual worker is paid only about 1/3 of that; the rest is general & administrative, overhead, utilities, benefits, etc.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
- Thread starter
- #44
I think that ANY job description will have winners and losers, especially since almost all jobs require some modicum of skill/talent. Why does one restaurant sit empty when the one next to it is jam-packed and has a long line? There is no free lunch and there is no panacea. On top of all of that, for tradespeople, they also have to have good people skills; trades require trust for repeat business.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
mfgenggear
Aerospace
In my local there are disciplined of all trades installing new electrical poles making good money.
Electrical
Civil engineering
Surveying
Drilling
Excavation
You name it
Up to $50/hr
Electrical
Civil engineering
Surveying
Drilling
Excavation
You name it
Up to $50/hr
mfgenggear
Aerospace
In any field they have to experience
And be good at it, just like us.
And be good at it, just like us.
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- #48
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- #49
NOLAscience
Structural
Think about the hiring process:
During the interview, the company tries hard to impress you, telling you how wonderful it is to work for them, all the great benefits (well, sort of), the great teamwork, etc.
Then, 1 minute after you show up for your first day of work, they start piling on work, giving you more projects than you could do well in an 80-hour work week, plus HR training and keeping up with your PDH requirements. Then they degrade you by threatening your job if you work less than 60 hours per week.
Imagine if they told you this in the interview, "If we hire you, you'll be working 10 hour days, Monday through Saturday and maybe on Sunday afternoon, too." I'd walk out right there.
Why can't WE determine the amount of work we can do WELL? Are we professionals or not?
The current style of "management" treats engineering professionals as though they are machines that can be driven harder and harder. Even a machine overheats and breaks down if driven too fast; is it any surprise that humans do, too?
During the interview, the company tries hard to impress you, telling you how wonderful it is to work for them, all the great benefits (well, sort of), the great teamwork, etc.
Then, 1 minute after you show up for your first day of work, they start piling on work, giving you more projects than you could do well in an 80-hour work week, plus HR training and keeping up with your PDH requirements. Then they degrade you by threatening your job if you work less than 60 hours per week.
Imagine if they told you this in the interview, "If we hire you, you'll be working 10 hour days, Monday through Saturday and maybe on Sunday afternoon, too." I'd walk out right there.
Why can't WE determine the amount of work we can do WELL? Are we professionals or not?
The current style of "management" treats engineering professionals as though they are machines that can be driven harder and harder. Even a machine overheats and breaks down if driven too fast; is it any surprise that humans do, too?
mfgenggear
Aerospace
Ya sorry about that should be white collar positions.
But I included be cause there are many engineering positions.
But I included be cause there are many engineering positions.
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- #51
I have no issue with working long hours, my only issues are when I'm not compensated appropriately, not given freedom to flex the schedule as needed, or when long hours are mandated to make-up for idiocy. I'm often part of an international team and need to meet with folks in Asia or elsewhere 1-2x daily, so long hours and occasional weekend work is somewhat expected.
Personally, the biggest post-interview surprise for me was simply the difference in attitudes and ability when I moved from a Fortune 50 to a small manufacturer. The Fortune 50 attracted real talent and consequently had a highly efficient, highly competent, highly experienced, "keep up" atmosphere. You learned to work fast, learn fast, and stayed on the edge of technology or you were gone and replaced quickly. Granted, there were seemingly endless opportunities in research, manufacturing, and other niches to grow as an engineer. The small office was lackadaisical all around - nobody worked fast, nobody went out of their way to learn, and competency regarding engineering tools and knowledge was lousy. They had little in terms of research or manufacturing facilities, so to be fair, growth opportunities were limited to waiting on someone above you to retire or die. It only took me a few months there to become more competent than most of the engineering staff and management. Shortly thereafter I wrote a bit of FEA code as a sales tool which inadvertently obsoleted most of my position and forced me into the choice of being fired or let go due to lack of work. That experience definitely changed my view on professionalism.
I agree with the belief that the trades have a bright future for those willing to master them. Two important considerations tho that weren't mentioned - hours and ownership. Anybody with talent thats willing to work the hours can make really good money, last I knew my brother the lineman makes ~$27/hr straight time but works 60-90 most weeks and occasionally travels to other states on storm duty where he's on OT 24/7 for 1-3 weeks. ~$27/hr ~ $140k one year. Business ownership also makes a huge difference to one's income, tho to be fair it comes with liability and other headaches.
Personally, the biggest post-interview surprise for me was simply the difference in attitudes and ability when I moved from a Fortune 50 to a small manufacturer. The Fortune 50 attracted real talent and consequently had a highly efficient, highly competent, highly experienced, "keep up" atmosphere. You learned to work fast, learn fast, and stayed on the edge of technology or you were gone and replaced quickly. Granted, there were seemingly endless opportunities in research, manufacturing, and other niches to grow as an engineer. The small office was lackadaisical all around - nobody worked fast, nobody went out of their way to learn, and competency regarding engineering tools and knowledge was lousy. They had little in terms of research or manufacturing facilities, so to be fair, growth opportunities were limited to waiting on someone above you to retire or die. It only took me a few months there to become more competent than most of the engineering staff and management. Shortly thereafter I wrote a bit of FEA code as a sales tool which inadvertently obsoleted most of my position and forced me into the choice of being fired or let go due to lack of work. That experience definitely changed my view on professionalism.
I agree with the belief that the trades have a bright future for those willing to master them. Two important considerations tho that weren't mentioned - hours and ownership. Anybody with talent thats willing to work the hours can make really good money, last I knew my brother the lineman makes ~$27/hr straight time but works 60-90 most weeks and occasionally travels to other states on storm duty where he's on OT 24/7 for 1-3 weeks. ~$27/hr ~ $140k one year. Business ownership also makes a huge difference to one's income, tho to be fair it comes with liability and other headaches.
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- #52
Them. Why did you leave last position?
Me. Got bored and sick of this particular type of work.
Them. Oh we don't do that type of work, we'll sometime but very rarely
Me. Mmmm sounds good, happy to mentor others through it, but don't want to be doing it myself.
Them. Totally understand, like I said we've only done one of those types of jobs in the last few years.
Me. Cool, so when do I start?
Them. Next week.
First day on the job... Guess what I'm working on... FML.
Me. Got bored and sick of this particular type of work.
Them. Oh we don't do that type of work, we'll sometime but very rarely
Me. Mmmm sounds good, happy to mentor others through it, but don't want to be doing it myself.
Them. Totally understand, like I said we've only done one of those types of jobs in the last few years.
Me. Cool, so when do I start?
Them. Next week.
First day on the job... Guess what I'm working on... FML.
On some jobs, if they told you the truth about why the position was open, it would go like this:
Happened to someone I know.
Always ask yourself when a headhunter calls you: "Am I solving my problem, or am I solving their problem."
"Well - there is a 99% chance the military will cancel the project. Our engineers quickly took lateral positions elsewhere in the corporation. That's why we're hiring clueless new warm bodies so when the contract is canceled we can lay you off. We will have to lay you off as there are now no open positions elsewhere in the corporation. Of course this will occur a few weeks after you've pissed-off your previous employer by leaving and you have moved to an undesirable area in the US."
Happened to someone I know.
Always ask yourself when a headhunter calls you: "Am I solving my problem, or am I solving their problem."
jimstructures
Structural
Agent666,
What does "FML" mean???
After you tell me, it is usually obvious.
Jim H
What does "FML" mean???
After you tell me, it is usually obvious.
Jim H
Here in the UK I got an NHS job that read like an electronics R&D engineer for medical devices with a requirement for an MEng, a 1st (4.0GPA), experience with software and hardware development. When I started the job it turned out to basically be driving around teaching arthritic old people how to use computers and Kindles. From that I understand there was a mass grading exercise called "Agenda for Change"; people were asked to describe their own jobs to be assessed and given a pay grade, and it was standard practice to exaggerate everything you did to come out a few grades higher.
Aside from that I've never noticed a problem.
Aside from that I've never noticed a problem.
- Thread starter
- #57
NOLAscience said:
Exactly why I have wondered for a long time why there is no professional union for engineers. I have worked in some union shops, where the hourly employees were protected by their union, all while the white collar staff was beat up daily and stressed for their jobs.
- Thread starter
- #58
NOLAscience said:
You nailed the exact reason I do not relocate for a job. What are the chances they get me out to the middle of BFE and the new company dumps on me even worse than I had it before? Probably good chances these days since all company owners and HR idiots seem to share "trade secrets".
MacGyverS2000
Electrical
Funny, I've always found the opposite... large corps were bloated behemoths who took forever to decide what to have for lunch, whereas the small shops were nimble and people were aching to make a difference.CWB1 said:
Guess it depends upon the field...
Dan - Owner
MacGyver said:
I think as well it really has a lot to do with the leadership and whose pushing the direction a company or team is going, get some good people in charge who know their stuff and a small number of competent people can achieve big things. Get some stale talent in charge who is afraid to make decisions or is too risk adverse and/or hire the wrong people and any innovation gets crushed.
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