Thinking Like an Engineer 8

[clickster]

Hi guys,

I've just joined but I've been lurking on this site for a few years now. I'm sorry if this question has already been answered but I wasn't able to find the response. Also, sorry in advance for the long post.

A little background:

I have a bachelors in ME, a masters in AE, plus a little over three years of work experience at a major company. The problem is that I have little-to-no confidence in my engineering skills/knowledge. That's mainly because I spent my college years more stressed out about passing my classes then learning, which means I crammed for exams, only to forget the material the day after. I figured I would learn through my work experience, however, it so happened that the work I was doing was repetitive and stressful. I'd have multiple tasks in one day with deadlines ranging from a few hours to the next day. I just focused on getting the work done on a timely manner and doing it well. As a result, I didn't learn much but I have improved my time-management and multi-tasking skills.

I did pretty well in college/work because I knew how to use my resources (textbooks, notes, etc), but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm good in engineering. I'm not really expecting to be some kind of engineering genius by now, I know it comes with time. But just comparing myself to my co-workers, those younger than me or with less experience, and friends from college, I feel I am not at the same level. I'm usually the quiet one that just listens in on (and understands) technical meetings but not someone that contributes.

Currently, I'm unemployed and don't feel like I'm qualified for any of the jobs out there even with my education and experience (or lack thereof). I decided to open up my books from college and try to understand the subjects at my own pace but I realized they're mainly all equations and derivations of equations that I can look up anytime I need to. (I think I sold/gave away and never got back books that had all the good stuff i.e. theories, applications, etc) I am also constantly reading engineering magazines to learn new stuff. None of it seems to be working since I think I'm more of a hands-on learner than anything else.

So my questions are:
Has this ever happened to anyone else? Is the "engineering intuition" (for lack of a better word) that I'm hoping to achieve something that comes with experience and education or is it an innate characteristic of an engineer?

Thanks!

 

[indme]

Sounds like you are already on the path to success. Being quiet, listening more and talking less have resulted in my success and promotion within engineering ranks in my company.

Sit back in your next meeting and listen to what people with under 5 years experience are saying, and you'll realize that 80% of what people are saying is obvious to everyone else in the room. Due to to ABET cirriculums, most have common knowledge. Engineers talk a lot, to one-up the other guy and be viewed as a contributor. But managers value people who only contribute when they have something novel to say.

In my company, you rise in the engineering ranks by thinking up new products, getting patents, knowing how to manage customer expectations, and having a global business perspective. Things like equations don't have to be in memory, you can look those up. The detail work has been commoditized by the rise of cheap engineering labor in Asia, where the company can find a PhD to do the calculations for 1/3 your salary. To be successful in the West today, you need to remove yourself from task-based thinking, focus on possibilities for new products, and only chime in when you have something sage or novel to say. Sounds like you have that concept now, so go forward with confidence.

 

[moon161]

EIT has mixed recognition. In interviews people have said 'wow, that's the hard part' (a PE) and also looked back at me like I had 2 heads when I explained the process.

As far as going through the process, it was quite worth it.

 

[PipelineTZM]

This is just a case of serious 'self-doubt'. The only thing you need is someone telling you that you have done a good job. But with a Masters in AE (specialization), pats on the back don't come that easy. Just continue reading those engineering books! Engineering is always like that. You'll always apply less of the things you learnt in college.

 

[lacajun]

It takes, on average, about 10 years for engineers to "come into their own." I read that somewhere many years ago. My observations make that time frame very believable.

I had a manager tell me repeatedly, and confidently so, that I needed to work "smarter" not "harder." I finally asked him what he meant by that. He didn't know! And he had about twice the experience as me. His manager told him that in a review. He thought it sounded good so that's what he told me, as one of his subordinates. I am very glad I called him on it.

Just because others make statements that sound full of confidence does not mean there is always substance to that confidence. We are all trying to figure it out. Cut yourself some slack and enjoy what you do know and can do. The rest will come, as they others have pointed out.

 

[kontiki99]

Funny to see folks talking about taking things apart and putting them back together and finding spare parts.

My first carrier was as an airplane mechanic. Certified school to be eligible to test was trade school, 18 months 4 hrs class per day and 4 hrs shop.

One rule in the engine overhaul class (teardown, reassemble and make power on working 7 cylinder radial engines) was that no one was allowed to run small parts back together to remember where they came from.

It was inefficient, it involved wasted steps. Everything was kept in parts trays for cleaning and inspection.

Last time I changed the clutch in a transverse engine front wheel drive car, I had engine out, front end suspension apart etc. Even after I stopped working as a mechanic for years, I could still get it all back together without a single missing or spare part.

The neighbor that lent me his driveway and engine hoist was amazed. You can learn efficient organization for stuff like that.

The other thing Mad Dog McCormick taught us in that class was about dropping parts. If a piston wrist pin hit the deck, the entire room drew a breath.

Even though he didn’t say anything, he watched out of the corner of his eye.

You lost a couple points for dropping a part if he caught it.

If you slipped it back into a parts tray without carefully inspecting it for damage first, he nailed you.

 

[kontiki99]

To post a little more on topic.

I've always done support engineering. The way I see it, engineering training develops applied physics from an analytical perspective.

Tradesman training is empirically based. They climb on the machine daily (aircraft), learn where everything is, it physical idiosyncrasies etc. We need those guys.

They probably cannot tell you what the strength of an assembly will be.

In an electrical system, they might not be able to work out the math involved for current analysis or substitute components.

The will know where to lay their hands on the stuff and how to operate it.

It all works best when both groups recognize their value and their limitations, because you need both, and usually one cannot do the others job.

I used to prove it to them by challenging them to solve a simple wheatstone bridge for currents. Most techs learned V=I*R, but until you know how to set the problem up as a series of 3 linear equations with 3 unknowns, you can’t come up good value.

Clickster, my point is that you probably bring a lot more to the table than you realize. A lot of it is getting comfortable in your own skin in a new environment. Just do it, dude.

 

[btrueblood]

"I have a bachelors in ME, a masters in AE, plus a little over three years of work experience at a major company. The problem is that I have little-to-no confidence in my engineering skills/knowledge. "

I graduated 20+ years ago with much the same degree(s). Spent 2 years in a "major company", then moved to a smaller company. My workload and responsibilities both increased, and I found myself picking up a few of my old texts a bit more often, as more and stranger problems came my way...and as superiors found that I was able to solve some of them. That's pretty much been the pattern through my career - a steady migration to smaller and smaller companies, with more and more responsibilites being tacked on. But, more and more control over what I do. And more fun projects to work on. Oh, and leaving the aero world for commercial product mechanical design; aero/defense sounds sexy until you've been there awhile and realize what a beaurucratic morass it really is. Takes years and years to adopt and qualify new technology, so that you have fighter pilots buying commercial automotive radar detectors, and Marine sergeants buying commmerical handheld GPS receivers, prior to going overseas in Gulf War #1.

"I feel I am not at the same level. I'm usually the quiet one that just listens in on (and understands) technical meetings but not someone that contributes."

Good for you. Lots of alligator mouth and hummingbird arses out there. Be the one who only chimes in with good input (I calculated this, and respectfully suggest we increase the thickness of that web to improve the structural resonances, blah blah blah).

"(old text books) I realized they're mainly all equations and derivations of equations that I can look up anytime I need to. "

Yup, some of those texts that I'd sold I had to go humbly re-acquire. As a MS student, I thought I'd never need to know how to calculate Bessel functions, and naturally one of the first problems I ever worked on used them in all of their hateful glory. No, it's not about knowing how to do it from scratch, but it is about recognizing when to apply the different tools, and where to find the tools when you need them. (which book to pick up).

Lots of other good advice above, from EIT and community-college courses, to volunteer work, to projects. Lots of good online collaborative project stuff goes begging for people to run simple calcs. A few email posts and suddenly you are their chief engineer.

 

[csd72]

When I had 3 years of experience I thought I knew a lot more than I actually did.

In engineering you never stop learning, and expecting to have the judgement after 3 years is a little ambitious for most people.