Tingling sensation while in Substation 1

[pmdykstra]

I've been working in the utility industry for the past 11 years. Up until about 3 and 1/2 years ago I was a field employee and was in or near high voltage substations almost daily. More recently, I've been in an office enviornment with occasional trips to the field. Recently (in the past year or so) I've noticed that when I'm in a 345kV yard (or 220kV) I experience tingling sensations in my arms and other parts of the body (most nocticabley arms), while someone standing right next to me feels nothing. Why the change? It's a very unsettling feeling, I am not breaking an clearance rules, I am simply talking about walking through the yard and when I get within a certain distance (haven't measured) I can definitely feel it.

 

[jraef]

Well you might want to read this from IEEE, it doesn't support your claim but it does reference some additional reading.

http://ewh.ieee.org/soc/embs/comar/Hypersensitivity.htm

I have a neighbor who is making a similar claim (we have a high tension power line overhead behind our house). My own theory is that she is sensitive to the sound, the "buzz" that gets worse on damp foggy mornings, because that's when I hear her complaining the most. I know when I walk through switch yards, that hum makes me nervous, but that's probably because I have seen HV arcs jump out of gear. Your tingling may be a reaction to your own perception of risk; your "spidey sense" warning you of a known dangerous situation. When you were younger, you may not have perceived the risk as strongly because you were exposed on a more constant basis. You were habituated. Now that you have been "...in an office enviornment...", you have lost that habituation.

"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[pmdykstra]

jraef
I'm pretty sure it's a physical reaction. The second time I noticed it I was simply walking parallel to a 345 bus and I felt it in the arm closest to the bus. It doesn't seem to happen in every yard either. One day i was at a yard and felt it 30 minutes later at Nother yard it wasn't noticeable. I'm guessing I've just gotten extra sensitive to the emf

 

[itsmoked]

Medications can cause allll sorts of sensitivities. It could well be the Allopurinal.

A friend of mine's business has a cell site in the parking lot. You can't tell it's a cell site because the tower is completely camouflaged inside a fake but extremely realistic fir tree. He told me about a customer who came in and seemed a bit antsy. The guy said his skin itched if he was close to cell towers and asked my friend if he knew of any nearby. It seems some people can sense something.



Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[EngAust]

Hi pmdykstra,

Welcome aboard.

I have been in around substations in Australia for the past few years. I visited some MV subs in Germany a few years ago and in a couple I felt exactly what you describe. I thought it was due to the shoes I was wearing at the time, as I haven't felt that in Australia.

Even though you're wearing the same shoes I'd be interested in whether you experience the sensations when standing on say some sort of thick insulating mat.

 

[zer0sequence]

Here's my 2 cents.... Back in the day you when you were working as a field tech or whatever, you were probably around new substations that were just energized so had very little, if any, load current. Nowadays, you're an office man, going to existing substations operating at full capacity trying to figure out expansion plans. Higher current = higher magnetic field...
The other possible reason... 345kv (or any voltage) substations are sometimes designed with higher than usual bus spacing to reduce the short circuit bracing that is needed. The further apart the busses, the better for short circuit forces, however, the voltage gradient in the air actually increases. So maybe you walked in a sub with long bus spacing, and felt that voltage gradient.

Or maybe you're just old and rusting now..

 

[pmdykstra]

zer0sequence,
Option 2 sea more likely . Some of these stations are the exact same as I was in while in the field, and their load currents were high back then too. Standard bus spacing too. I've come to believe that for some reason I've developed a bit of hypersensitivity to fhe emf. I was in a 138kv yard just last Friday and had the same sensation at a much less intensity level.

 

[Skogsgurra]

RE: jraef (Electrical) 1 Apr 11 10:48
"Gunnar (skogsgurra) had a great story a few years ago about divining the source of a "tingle" people were experiencing in a lake somewhere..."

The story (start of it) is here.

http://svt.se/2.33831/1.629601/el_misstanks_komma_ut_i_annabodasjon?page1851421=0

Run it through a translation program of your choice.

It turned out to be little animals (less then a mm dia) that swarmed in the water. They were contained in transparent jelly balls and couldn't be seen easily. But people felt them between their fingers and a rumour that the lake was electrified started and spread like wildfire.

If the OP thinks that he is sensitive to the electric field, then it is very easy to test if that is the case: When you are in a place where the feeling is intense, then put a grounded metallig screen between you and the source. Even a chicken net will work.

Magnetic elf sensitivity does not exist. There have been so many tests run so there is no doubt about its non-existance.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[msquared48]

I worked in 230 KV switch and substations for a couple of summers in college, and always had a problem with the static electricity. Never could shake it.

That being said, there are a lot of conditions we are only discovering today and are learning to deal with. Don't rule out anything until you find out why.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[Skogsgurra]

So we shouldn't rule out trolls, fairies and elf(s)?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[oldfieldguy]

I love my job.

I often get tingly at the prospect of a new high voltage substation.

old field guy

 

[jraef]

So we shouldn't rule out trolls, fairies and elf(s)?

...elves

Gunnar, haven't you been on the Internet lately? Trolls abound in chat rooms and foums, fairies are all over (especially here in San Francisco, not that there's anything wrong with that...) and elves? Who do you think makes the internet repairs at night?


"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe." -- Abraham Lincoln
For the best use of Eng-Tips, please click here -> faq731-376

 

[cuky2000]

Whatever its cause, Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity
(EHS) is a real, and sometimes disabling, problem for the affected individual......

http://ewh.ieee.org/soc/embs/comar/Hypersensitivity.htm

 

[dpc]

Money quote from above link:

Taken as a whole, the provocation studies strongly suggest that EHS symptoms are not related to actual exposures to electric or magnetic fields, and that electromagnetically hypersensitive individuals are no better than non-hypersensitive individuals in detecting the presence of fields.

 

[cuky2000]

Hi DPC,

I guess that the conclusion is that the there is not consensus regarding this issue.

Furthermore, I suspect that the power industry, researchers, academy, application engineers and legislators do no fully understand the EMF effect in humans.

 

[Skogsgurra]

Do you think that doctors that specialize in allergic problems and nerve system functions understand? They have been involved in the research. I know - I have followed the research for more than 25 years - and they (the doctors) have never found any correlation between actual exposure and reactions in human cells, tissue, organs or the body as such. It all seems to be a psychologic thing.

A psycological problem is also handicapping, but the problem is that most victims want 'society' to take technical actions to help them. Or they move to places where they think they are safe. That usualy is deep woods, deserts, mountains etcetera. One of our neighbours did that and killed himself when the gas heater in his camper consumed all oxygen. He had definitely been better off not to care.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[oldfieldguy]

I'm thinking that trial lawyers have the best understanding of the effects of "EHS symptoms" especially as relating to settlement of lawsuits and collection of contingency fees.

old field guy

 

[pmdykstra]

Skogsgurra,
I can tell you that for me it's a physical reaction. I know the mind can influence that sort of thing, but the first couple of times I noticed it, I wasn't even thinking about it. Keep in mind, that I've worked near energized equipment for 7+ years and was exposed to it daily. Even while being an office employee, I would make field visits, and never noticed it. I can say that on a couple of occasions, I visited two yards in a day, and I would notice it in one and not the other (both 345kV yards, both times). The last time I was in a 345kv yard it was the most noticable. (this was a heavily loaded station, which I actually didn't think about until after I left). I could definitely feel the change the closer (horizontally obviously) I would get to the equipment. When I would take a few steps back the feeling subsided.

I guess you don't have to believe me, and if you want to think it's in my head, that's fine, and maybe it partly is. All I know is that I am having physical effects when I am in a high voltage yard. They basically include tingling sensation (mostly in arms) and a general uncomfortable feeling (I know that's a generic term, but it's the best I can give).

 

[Skogsgurra]

The sensation that you describe is very real. I feel that, too. And also when the electric field outdoors is high (thunderstorm). You can convince yourself that the effect is electrostatic by doing the experiment I described in an earlier post (use a grounded shielding net).

This kind of reaction has been known at least since the eighteenth century when people were experimenting with glass and resin electricity and Leiden Jars or whatever.

That is pure physics and no need to involve mystical forces or reactions. We all feel that and most of us don't worry.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.

 

[pmdykstra]

Skogsgurra ,
I'm not exactly worried, I just find it strange that I feel at it a much higher intensity level than I ever did before. Maybe I was acclimitized to it. My real concerns are two. First (and this is probobly the least) would I be able to return to the field on a day to day basis?
Second-is this indicitave of any health concerns? I know this may not be the best thread to figure that out, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

 

[Skogsgurra]

I have worked in the same environment as you for many decades. In steel works, paper mills, power stations and so on. Perhaps not so often in the HV switchyards, but often enough to count as a 'switch-yard man'. The discussion about hypersensitivity is an ongoing thing and lots of research has been made over the years. I have been involved in some of that research and also corresponded with a few of the better known specialists.

Many of the studies have concentrated on finding out if individuals that say that they are sensitive to electric and magnetic fields really can sense such fields. Many of the people that say that they are hypersensitive do not want to partake in such studies. The reason seems to be that they receive welfare money (such money is very generously distributed in Sweden) and that they think that money will be withdrawn if they don't perform 'well' enough. Those that has taken part in the studies have never, yes NEVER, been better at telling if power is on or not.

There are no known health effects as long as the fields do not exceed certain limits that are laid down in national health regulations and those limits are way lower than field strengths that cause any harm. The limit that comes close to any practical existing field strength is the SAR dose from mobile phones. The field strength from cellular towers is very low in comparison with the field strength when using the phone near your head.

The worries are more harmful than any real effects from power lines, transformers, motors or any devices you come close to.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.