Titles: Engineer vs. Designer 25

[haggis]

This has been beaten to death in the past but let's get some opinions.

Of course it makes perfect sense as to whether some of us have to be degreed or licensed depending on what field of endeavor we enter. But…..Let’s all get over the title thing as to whether one is entitled to call him/herself an engineer rather than a designer. As long as nobody misrepresents themselves as being degreed or licensed and practicing as such when in fact they are not. True, some jurisdictions have already reserved the title “engineer” solely for those who are licensed and it is wrong.

The American Medical Association have not yet objected to the terms lawn doctor or tree surgeon simply because these people are not implying they have a degree or a license.

At the end of the day if we’ve designed something that is of benefit to our way of life and done so in a safe and responsible manner, we can choose to say if we wish, we engineered it. Degreed, licensed or otherwise, we have all earned it and the number of years I have spent in the engineering community, I still find that we learn from each other constantly.

 

[TheTick]

If you designed it, why not call yourself a designer?

 

[ajack1]

Well according to my dictionary one of the definitions of being an engineer is.

A person trained in any branch of engineering.

So I guess if someone has taught you how to put a drill bit in a chuck or you have spent many years putting letters after your name you are still an engineer.

 

[IRstuff]

From California's PE Act:


6751. Qualifications
(a) The applicant for certification as an engineer-in-training shall comply with all of the following:
(1) Not have committed acts or crimes constituting grounds for denial of registration under Section 480.
(2) Successfully pass the first division of the examination. The applicant shall be eligible to sit for the first division of the examination after satisfactory completion of three years or more of college or university education in a board-approved engineering curriculum or after completion of three years or more of board-approved experience.


Note the last line.

TTFN

 

[haggis]

The Tick,

I do call myself a designer but wonder why so many people get miffed about the use of the word engineer. This forum is aptly named in the sense that if we could all get over it, we would have improved ourselves and get ahead in our work.

 

[haggis]

IRstuff,

"or after completion of three years or more of board-approved experience."

This can't be without college education. I thought California's rules were some of the most stringent.

 

[haggis]

The Tick,

Just thinking. If we worked at the same company, you resonsible for one machine and I another, both functioning as they were intended, efficient and safe, yours would be engineered and mine merely designed?

I don't get it.

 

[IRstuff]

My understanding of the PE act is that EXPERIENCE is what they're after, not education. In fact:

6753. Equivalents for experience; education; teaching
With respect to applicants for registration as professional engineers, the board:
(a) Shall give credit as qualifying experience of four years, for graduation with an engineering degree from a college or university the curriculum of which has been approved by the board.


Note that education can be equated to "qualifying experience," not the other way.

TTFN

 

[TPNY]

For the EIT, you still have to be able to pass the test, whether you have 3 years college or 3 years experience. Personally I thought it was a pud test, but maybe that's because I took it after 4 years of formal education.

On a brief side note, I just had my windows tinted by "Doctor Tint"... but, he was more of a designer than a doctor...

 

[TFL]

haggis,

CA is very weird. they cound school as experiance. so you can sit for the EIT with 3 years "experiance" (schooling).
you then need 6 years "experiance" for a PE which equals 4 years of schooling and 2 actual years of experiance.

so you can get a pe in cali with only 2 years of really world

very scarry in my mind to let "children design buildings" as my boss would say

 

[TheTick]

I'm not trying to stand in an ivory tower and look down upon the non-degreed. Not everyone's life-path puts them in a position to go to college. However, after a certain amount of education and time spent as an engineer, the difference is fairly plain to me, though difficult to put into words.

I have been in the position of training designers (AA degree or less) and engineers to do the same design work at a certain company designing complex molded parts. Without exception, the engineers were able to adapt more quickly. This was due mostly to the breadth and depth of their knowledge and experience. Engineers could more readily assess the consequences of their choices. Mostly due to lack of education, especially in geometry, statics and dynamics, materials, thermodynamics and physics, the designers were not able to assess the design well enough to make sound decisions on their own in more than a few cases.

 

[ctopher]

I was an engineer for 6 years at one company and now a designer. I have college, but what do I consider myself, an engineer or a designer?
If someone to ask, I tell him/her I am a designer in engineering.
IMO, I don't care what people call themselves, as long as they are good at what they do.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[EngJW]

A drafter used to just lay down lead, a designer would work out the mechanical details of a concept, and an engineer would do the calculations. A project engineer didn't have to know any of that- just take care of the paperwork and the meetings. With all the computer power we now have, an engineer can do it all (or is expected to). One who used to be a designer can now plug in numbers in a program and do what once required an engineer.

 

[Tobalcane]

Ctopher,

Just a question, when you said that you have college, does that mean you have a college ABET Engineering Degree? If you have a BS or BE in engineering, why are you in design instead of taking the Engineering role? And who gives you directions the manager or are there Engineers at your company? You don’t have to answer if it is too personal.

Just curious…


Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane

 

[TheTick]

One who used to be a designer can now plug in numbers in a program and do what once required an engineer.

Once again, I have inherited a cleanup job from a manager who believed the same thing.

 

[Tobalcane]

EngJW

I agree with you there and that is how it works with the two companies I worked for. If it was a small design, I can do the design and analysis, but if it was a big one, I would have to rely on my draftsmens and designers to do the bulk of the work and I just have to make sure that all of the mechanical (vib, shock, and heat) requirements are being met. I would also like to add that if something goes wrong, it will be me and not the draftsmen or designer that will get that call into the conference room for an emergency meeting to answer for both the design and analysis.


Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane

 

[ctopher]

yes
I was an engineer, lost my job thru layoff, found the job where I'm at. It is secure, like what I do, and payed more than most engineers at other companies.
Engineers here use to give direction, now it is the managers.

Chris
Sr. Mechanical Designer, CAD
SolidWorks 05 SP3.1 / PDMWorks 05
ctopher's home site

FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[johnwiss]

Got the same issue--I am the Director of Signal Processing Design, when in fact my group sohould be called Communcations systems Engineering since we are the best engineers in the division and do that function. Problem is there is another group with the systems engineering moniker--so they had to call the group and me something else. Who cares about names--on a resume you put your own description of what you did--and use my excuse as to why your title/group is composed of the words it is.

 

[PSE]

My experiences are perhaps classical in that the engineers (titled as such) could also do design but designers could not engineer (provide validation information in regards to a design). Either could and would be part of the inventive process but drawing approvals went through engineers and management level personnel.

Regards,

 

[patdaly]

For my money, its simple, I graduated with a BSME, therefore I am a Engineer. I cannot do what a PE does, nor do I wish to. I do not know of any current educational requirements for a Designer, at least here in the US.
Therefore, I AM an Engineer........... Not a Designer, and not a PE.