To leave, or stay... 4

[Electromechanical30]

Hello all,

Recently, I was sought out by a recruiter. The firm found an old copy of my resume online. Anyway, I was contacted by a company within the same industry that I am currently working in. I decided to hear them out, and go in for an interview. Everything went very well... The company offers a higher wage, the same benefit package, a shorter commute, and better hours. Sounds like a no-brainer, right?

Well, my dilemma is this - I am completely happy with my current job. I get along great with my team, and the management. The only disadvantage is it is quite a commute - 110 miles round trip…

I have a decision to make, and it is a difficult one. I would just like to hear your opinion, as if this was a scenario that you were facing.

Thanks to all.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Buy a fast, dark colored, car.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[planedr]

To me happiness makes a big difference. I have taken cuts to be happy.

 

[ctopher]

It's up to you, but IMO, I take happiness. My last job I was happy with the actual work, but the long commute, no room for advancement, and inconsistant management made me leave. Now, much shorter drive, plenty room for advancement and I'm in a position to find work to make myself happy. Good luck

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 05
AutoCAD 05
ctopher's home site (updated 06-21-05)
FAQ559-1100
FAQ559-716

 

[IRstuff]

I'd agree, money is good, but happiness is better.

Better a swamp that you know vs. a swamp that you don't, replete with hidden alligators and snakes.

TTFN

 

[Nella95]

I'd stick with your current situation, though, and it may be a recruiter adage: if you were willing to hear the other company out, then there's probably some subconscious reason.

But, 'the grass is always greener on the other side.'

 

[livingston]

If the money you make now is sufficient for what you want to do then why leave? You may find yourself in a miserable situation with the boss or your coworkers in the new place.

 

[ziggi]

I'd leave, simply b/c I hate driving long distances, but that's just me. As for the happiness worry, that generally doesn't bother me, I make my own fun wherever I go, it just depends how you interact with people. My only worry would be that the work might be boring at the new place or that it's a dead end job.

 

[bushel3]

What do people think about talking to your current company? Tell them the other place is closer and pays more but I like working with the people here. See what they have to say. I have a friend who was going to leave his current job. When he submitted his two weeks notice they wanted to keep him and offered him more than the other company.

There are some risks, especially if they don't give you a raise and you decide to stay. What do other people think about that.

 

[jmw]

Is there anything at your current job that makes you think you will only be happy there?

Were you unhappy at your previous position?
Is this the only job you have ever had that makes you happy?
Are you happy simply because of the job or because it has brought you a good salary, the chance to do your work and be happy at home as well?
How much of what this job has meant is actually creating happiness because of external factors?
Is it just the job?
What are the chances you will be even happier at your new job with better pay and a shorter commute and more time with your family? or, just as happy.

Talk it over with the family. If its a tough choice and it affects your happiness, it affects their's aswell.

How about the thought that the reason you are happy at your job is because of you and not them?
You can take that with you because it is you.
In fact, I would bet a fair few contributors here are strangely happy with their jobs yet, if they viewed them objectively, would be hard pressed to find any reason within the company or work group that made it an external thing and not just a facet of their own characters.

No one can guarantee happiness but at a guess, unless this is an especially unique company, you are happy there because you do your work well and enjoy working with other people... but you probably will be just as hard working and successful at your new company and will be just as happy, if not more so.

Money isn't everything but the longer you stay in one company the more you will find that your "contentment" is dropping you down the money stakes as you will not be rewarded as you should be.
That's life.
And sooner or later you will find that diferential between income and expenses begins to bite and you may be less happy then.

If this is your first big job move then it is understandable that you are reluctant to leave but beware that it sets a pattern of either staying too long or going too soon for the wrong reasons.

Now you will always wonder what would have happened if you took that job (and taking it, what would have happened if you hadn't) .. your dilema... talk it over with the family. If you stay, keep it quite, don't try to parlay a better deal from your own company and if you go, go on good terms.

By the way, beware the trap of a counter offer from your current employers, it means they really value you more than they reward you and/or that they need you on-board till they can find a cheaper replacement. You can't go through life blackmailing companies into giving you better terms. It doesn't work that way.
This is the time you will find out just how many of the management are fair weather friends.. Management always love people who work for less than the maret rate. That love ends when the situation changes.

In fact, why is the pay better at the new company? How do their normal rates of pay compare to where you are and to the market rate?

Whatever you decide, live with it and don't keep looking back with the "whatifs?"


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TheTick]

I found your answer!
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http://www.indra.com/8ball/front.html>

 

[AndrewTX]

Electromechanical 30

I have just been in a very similar situation. Apparently my resume from 2000 was still floating around the internet and a recruitier contacted me out of the blue in December.

I also decided to listen to his offer and talk to the company for whom he was recruiting. This new job would be very interesting, have lots of travel including international travel (I like that), would pay better, and I would work out of my house when I wasn't travelling.

It all sounded nice, but I am happy in my current job. My current company is good, I have interesting work, and it is only a 10 minute drive from my house.

Just this past week I decided to withdraw from consideration for that other position and informed the recruiter. I decided that there really isn't anything motivating me to want to leave my current situation. I'm not the type to just move around for moving's sake. If I leave a company there needs to be some motivating factor causing that move. So, since there isn't a situation that makes me want to leave my current company, I turned down the other opportunity.

 

[Ashereng]

The company offers a higher wage, the same benefit package, a shorter commute, and better hours. Sounds like a no-brainer, right?

Well, my dilemma is this - I am completely happy with my current job. I get along great with my team, and the management.

On the face of it, I would also agree that it is a no-brainer.

You have a great working relationship with colleagues and management. That is probabaly due in large part to the fact that you are good at what you do, and nice to boot. You can build the same rapport at your new employer's.

The new job with better pay, better hours, shorter drive to me also means:
1) More time with your family. I would think a lot of folks here would agree that spending more time with the family is also VERY important. A 110 mile round trip takes what, 2 hours a day out of your life?
2) The new company appreciates you more. Maybe the current company takes you for granted a bit? Why else would someone offer you more unless they need/appreciate you more?
3) Shorter drive means less wear and tear on your vehicle. When you trade it in, it will have less mileage = more $$$.
4) A fresh start can do wonders for a career. New ways of doing things, new challenges, new excitement.

If this opportunity was available to me - I'd be there already.

 

[FrenchCAD]

Interesting topic, especially because I'm facing the same situation currently.

In my case, if the new company wants me, I'll leave definitly.

New job is in the city I live in (4km away from home, cheers!), I'll be better paid and it is a good place in a good company.

Compared to my actual job, I will not hesitate.

See, same offers for you and me, but at the end, the choice is yours.

Actually, if you're happy with current job, you can try to ask some more money as bushel3 said. I think that's worth trying it if you do not wanna leave. Some kind of "fidelity bonus"

Cyril Guichard
Mechanical Engineer Consultant
France

 

[jmw]

Take great care playing the auction game.

Before you race off to take Bushel3's advise, plan and prepare how you go about it and what you will say.

What your manager may do is make the decision for you.

What are the possible outcomes?

Option 1: "Can't do anything (my hands are tied, the markets down, times are tough etc), it's up to you." What message do you send out by staying? (he isn't going to put his neck on the line asking his boss to amend the budgets; you going will be a "circumstance beyond his control" and provide him with excuses for future failures to meet targtes.. "I'm down on staff levels.")

Option 2: "I really can't do anything now but, and trust me on this; (don't) next pay rise I'll go to bat for you and do the best I can. (don't be surprised by a short memory or the "conditions are changed" excuse next pay rise or that the job he promised went to some new lower paid recruitment)

Option 3: he goes away and gets you a good deal. Accept it but watch out that next pay rise you don't discover them clawing it back i.e. you've borrowed your future, or that some time soon they have a restructuring/rationalisation etc excercise and guess who is out of the door i.e. that this is a holding action for them to recruit a replacement.

Option 4: They are a genuinely nice company (your call) who never knowingly underpaid their workers and are glad you have brought it to their attention; you get a good pay rise, you continue to get pay rises and you get the promotion and the career progression you are seeking and were promised.

Beware the Stockholm Syndrome, it doesn't just apply in hostage situations, its there in the workplace too.
Is this really a great place to work? or is it the old paint scenario, you know how the paintwork looks fine right up until you put that first brush stroke of pure white emulsion on the wall and see the truth?

Take a look at staff turnovers, who has stayed and who has gone while you've been there? Any surprises? Was it just the unhappy ones who left? Does this tell you anything?

In the normal course of events, especially if we are happy at work, we often miss all the clues, the empty desks, the extra work (we love extra work for no added benefit), that all the good guys are going and the unemployable remaining.

Try and see if your co-workers have a different view of the company.

Of course, this doesn't mean the next company is any better, but it will be different, what you really want to know is if it is better or worse - for you. And really, that takes us back to who you are; the best news is if the company you work for really is a terrible place because if you are happy there, you can be happy anywhere.

Of course, it may be a really good comany and it isn't just you who is happy. Is it unique?

Worst case is that the company you are going to has to pay to replace unhappy people who keep leaving... is this job to replace some one who left, who got promoted or because their work load is expanding?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Heckler]

This is a great question. I have used this on a couple of interviews. It's an important question to know is this a new position, a replacement due to promotion, or vacancy due to someone leaving.

Worst case is that the company you are going to has to pay to replace unhappy people who keep leaving... is this job to replace some one who left, who got promoted or because their work load is expanding?

 

[CarolinaPE]

What was the gut feel you received from the interview? Just because you like it where you are at does not mean you cannot be happy with the new position. A 110 mile round trip commute has to be pretty rough. I have a 60 mile round tripper and it is tough. If someone offerred even the same position a lot closer it would definitely have me thinking about it long and hard, co-worker comraderie be darned. Being happy with a job also involves the other "costs" associated. Quality of life outside of the workplace should be a big factor in your consideration. Unless you are giving up some sort of advantage (better advancement or lower cost of living) it sounds like a "no-brainer" to me too.

 

[Electromechanical30]

WOW!!! Quite a good conversation going on here! I will give all of you a bit more info.

Currently, I work for a very large company which was just included in Fortune's 100 best companies to work for in 2005. I have a 55 mile commute from my garage to the parking lot - yes, this drive does eat up 2+ hours on an already long 12 hour shift. Seeing that I live in the Midwest, I forgot to factor in weather conditions… you do the math on that

Yes, my work days are long. But, the overall condensed schedule does yield more time off (usually 12-15 days on/off per month). The prospective company is the traditional Monday - Friday 8 hours a day.

My current company is a strong company, and they are growing. This situation is true for the prospective company, but they are smaller scaled. The prospective job does offer more of a variety, do to it's smaller nature.

JMW - you are all correct in the fact that my happiness is due to several factors: I am good at what I do, I am reliable, and I do get along well with others. Traits that would/do follow.

I guess I am a little nervous, because I was put out of work several years ago and decided to go back to school to fine tune my trade… get more technical. After working for a place that drove me nuts for a year, I was hired at my current employer. Yes, I was happy at my first job - but that's the one that laid me off. What's more, I have a friend who left a job that he was happy at to "go for the gold", so to speak. He ended up regretting his decision within 6 months and left there...

Bushel3 - that thought did cross my mind the others are right. I spoke with some of my friends regarding the counter offer situation. One of my friends, who works in high management, stated exactly what JMW stated - "Beware", and pretty much stated it the same way JMW spelled out the options.

My current company hasn't had any turnovers since I've been here, which is just over two years. The prospective employer states that they are hiring due to expansion - I did see the new construction. (good question, Heckler)

I have had one lengthily interview with the prospect that went very well! They did invite me back to meet with the department staff and to test my abilities.

You all have brought up excellent points and counter-points. I am glad that so many of you have weighed in on this situation! I will let you know when I make my final decision.

 

[jmw]

OK,
some more thoughts.
You might want to tabulate all the pros and cons for each company.
Writing it all out may help the thought processes.
It seems you have a problem not often encountered, it is not an easy "good company/bad company" situation.

That means that short term you probably have no downsides and it is the long term that is the unknown and probably unknowable.
Balance all the medium term considerations and remember that in the long term you can always go looking again (keep your CV/resume out there and up to date and keep considering new offers).

Take a look at those factors and ask if changing jobs is the only solution e.g.
the long comute
... is it such a problem? if so there are two choices:
change jobs
Relocate
Why have you not relocated before now?
Pay and rewards:
If you know they are one of the best to work for, then they know it too so if the benefits are not all that you would like, the "make me a better offer to stay" option is not the best way to improve them or your standing with the company:
change jobs
Use the annual review (yes, I know, in many companies this is usually a joke, an opportunity for the boss to prepare the ground for keeping you under), use it more constructively and make plain your aspirations then.
If you need more money this prepares your manager for it. He isn't caught by surprise, he can include this in his budget and go to bat for you.[/]

Also, if you manage your leaving in the right way you leave the door open to return... I've known people at my last company who returned with no problem at all. One after just one day at his new job and one after several months... i.e. before they had a chance to recruit someone else, and others who, with several years elsewhere returned with wider experience and almost leapfrogged their way up within the original company, all things are possible.

This means you absolutely cannot inveigle your current company into making a counter offer and then reject it for the new job, you would need to represent this new job as a "pastures new" adventure.

Last point, don't let the decision take itself.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Electromechanical30]

The Long Commute: Relocation was considered. My current employer is located just outside of the suburban metro area, and housing is quite expensive... Secondly, it's a comfort thing - We like where we live.

Pay and Rewards: We just had our reviews. I "scored" well, so I got my "cost of living" increase...

I don't plan on trying to wager with my current employer. If I do in fact decide to leave, I will give plenty of notice and on good terms. I'm not one to burn bridges.

I have been contemplating the pro's and con's on a daily basis... I will have more info later this week. Getting a chance to speak with the department personal should clarify other some of the other issues. At least I will get a "first impression" before day 1...