To publish or patent... that is the ?

[MacGyverS2000]

Over the years I have compiled a small horde of circuits that are either enhancements to existing ideas or (what I believe to be) novel approaches to solving problems. The question is, what do I do with them?

Should I send them to one of the industry rags and hope to line my pockets with a few Benjamins, or should I remove a few Benjamins from my wallet and apply for a patent? Either would do nicely for my resume, but it comes down to a rate of return versus risk. An industry rag publication would be more immediate gratification (money in my pocket) but may not have as high a dazzle factor as a patent, whereas a patent will have a higher dazzle factor at the cost of my hard-earned money, a longer wait time, and (greater?) possibility of rejection.

It should be noted that I would most likely NOT defend any patent received as it wouldn't be worth the money/time/energy, I would simply be getting them for the gee-whiz factor... looks good on the resume and you can always say "I thought of that idea first".

Your comments/criticisms welcomed and appreciated...


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[IRstuff]

I might recommend getting a couple of the best of the bunch and going for those. The costs are a bit more than a "few" Benjamins, more like a hundred or so:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2007september30_2008july01.htm#patapp,

assuming that you'll want a patent attorney to do a "once-over." on the application.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Electronic filing for a small entity (me) is $75...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Noway2]

In the end, you need to decide what type of "feather you want in your cap" and what would make you happiest and give you the greatest sense of accomplishment. Obtaining either one is something that you should take pride in.

If it were me ... in my opinion it is an unfortunate situation, but most patents and research publications are both so full of mis-information and obfuscation that I (at least personally) consider them to be next to worth less. Add to that the fact that there is an absolute flood of patented items that really shouldn't be and in my mind this too reduces the prestige of patents. Getting your idea published in a well circulated and / or prestigous publication where it would be evaluted, critiqued and reviewed by some of the best minds in the industry, I think amongst engineers least, would have more of a "thats impressive" factor.

In retrospec, the most satisfaction I got from having my name on a patent (that I "sold" to the company I worked for) was getting the letter from the competitor's lawyer stating that they objected to the patent and were going to challenge it. The satisfaction came from the fact that it pissed them off. Of course the challenge notice went in the circular file.

 

[Pud]

I would have thought the possibility of having a circuit named after you for all posterity (e.g. "Schmidt Trigger" "Colpitts Oscillator" "Macgyvers Driver array?" etc ) would be a good legacy for your descendents.

Harry

 

[DHambley]

How about publishing a paper at a conference? "A new Mcgyvers Driver Technique" It'll be less than $1,000 for airfare, hotel, etc. A few manager-types I've known go to conferences to scout out new employees. They DON'T read EDN. Only other engineers read EDN and they'll use your ideas.

 

[Skogsgurra]

Hey! Shall we be cross-posting here? This is getting very confusing. Do you want the discussions here or in the pub?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[IRstuff]

Ah, but Dan, you need to pay the $75 + $255 search fee + $105 examination fee.

Then, when the patent is issued, you need to pay $720 issue fee, and $365 maintenance fee at 3.5 yrs, etc.

So, more than a few Benjamins, and that's assuming no lawyer involvement.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Skogsgurra]

That's what I said in the pub. "Inventions are the mother of poverty.."

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

--------------------------------------
100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[itsmoked]

Skogs... Your quote is... profound.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[jimkirk]

If you don't intend to defend your patent, publish. As IRstuff posted, it's not just the application fee, it's a long term relationship.

Besides, the U. S. patent system is clogged enough with nuisance patents, trolls, and the like. Adding patents without intending to defend them just adds more chaff.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

If you don't intend to defend your patent, publish. As IRstuff posted, it's not just the application fee, it's a long term relationship.

I'm looking at it from a CV/resume point of view... patents are (typically) more impressive to hiring managers than a "quick tip" posted in a rag. A $1k one-time fee for several $k in salary every year is a good trade-off (if it can be pulled off).

Besides, the U. S. patent system is clogged enough with nuisance patents, trolls, and the like. Adding patents without intending to defend them just adds more chaff.

I agree with the first statement, disagree with the second. My designs would not be a troll, they would be actual improvements over existing designs. I would not be going into the process thinking I'm going to make any money from the patents. A company with scruples would be willing to pay money to use my idea, but I don't have the inclination to waste my life suing a company without. I see no harm in letting it be known that I was the original creator... if all inventors took the attitude of "what's the point?" the big companies would have zero reason to even have lawyers, they'd just steal it every time.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[jimkirk]

Dan, what a lot of companies will do is analyze the patent, and spend lots of resources skirting around it. Perfectly legal, maybe not quite as scrupulous as licensing the technology, or as creative as developing an even better solution, but much more scrupulous than stealing.

The end result is companies making needless second rate compromises. That's why I say it adds more chaff.

Your design might not be a troll, but there's no way to communicate that any and all are free to use it, because that is contrary to the whole purpose of patents. As far as anyone else knows, you'll sue their pants off.

Personally, I think the patent, trademark and copyright system has some major flaws, particularly in addressing issues like what you've brought up, but I'm doubtful it will change anytime soon.

I'm also always disappointed when companies do the skirting around dance, but it happens a lot.

 

[itsmoked]

The biggest issue is that it's a circuit. Unless it's a spectacular entry to something new like a Vitesse filter that is promptly manufactured and marketed then you really will never know if someone is using it. Otherwise I think a circuit patent is pretty pointless.

If you just want some patents for your wall then get one. And one only, as then you can say you have a patent for those who are easily impressed. Others probably could care less.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[IRstuff]

Sure, it looks impressive to have couple patents, and I got my inventor's bonus out of that, which is about the only money that anyone ever made, other than the patent attorneys.

Another good thing to have on your resume is a few publications.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[felixc]

The prices that I see above seem incredibly cheap, from the experience that I lived through a patenting process. Perhaps because we wanted the international coverage procedure, but the patent attorney fees were in the tens of thoudands. You have to show that you have searched for similar inventions, to demonstrate that your invention meets the criteria of "non-evidence" to a skilled person in this field of application. Another one, you cannot apply if the idea has been published or if a produce has been made within a certain time frame of the demand.

 

[richs]

Hiya-

You mentioned:

"Should I send them to one of the industry rags and hope to line my pockets with a few Benjamins, or should I remove a few Benjamins from my wallet and apply for a patent"

I went the former route and it wasn't bad. Last June, a little circuit of mine was published in "Nuts and Volts" and it wasn't all that much of an effort.

With all the time spent, I think I realized about $0.50/hr but I wanted the circuit for myself, so the software costs, and hardware design were already written off (my personal stuff, not work for hire).

Anyway, I wrote the article in an afternoon, another day for the pictures, several hours finding second sources for the display in question.

I turned it in around Thanksgiving time and it got published in June. Somewhere around, I have a scanned copy of the check.

Another "hidden cost" was reader feedback. I had used a 1n4148 diode as a power diode (but I had done my homework very carefully) and one guy complained about that. Another wanted to argue the merits of the stuff and that was fine too. We did both via email and it was fine. Other than that it was fine. Actually, it was very similar to the threads around here.

The editor that I worked with at "Nuts and Volts" was a very pleasant lady to work with. Again, except for the check, it was all email.

I did put reference to the article in my resume.

I *WOULD NOT* recommend being an author for a hobby electronic magazine and expect to make a living at it. For fun, well, what the heck!

Cheers,

Rich S.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

When I say "industry rag", I mean EDN (Electronic Design News), Electronic Design, Embedded Systems Programming, etc. Nuts & Volts, Electronics Now, etc. are more hobby oriented and not the proper scope for my designs. I'm also talking about small designs (say 10-20 components), not full-blown articles with micros and such (though it would be nice to find a subject I could write about).

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[IRstuff]

Something really good might warrant publication in IEEE Circuits and Systems, even as a letter. While the readership is probably smaller, the prestige is larger.

Given that the likes of Widlar and Wilson jump started an entire industry from a handful of transistors, there are lots of possibilities.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[hltc]

My take on patents. Hard to defend. Long to implement. That being said, my name is on one that is in process, however I didnt pay for it.

Why do IBM and the likes have thousands of patents? Because big companies with big bank accounts make easy pickin's for lawsuits (think SCO) if someone thinks they are violating a patent. However, lets say you patent a circuit, and two years later you discover someone is using it without your permission..blatantly violating it. Guess what you can do? You can sue, and recover the money that you lost by the other company using your design. Whoa..wait, you never made a product using that patent? You never lost any money either. Then, you may get nothing. May is the operative word, because each case is different of course. Had this same conversation with a angel investor friend of mine the other day, and he had come to the same conclusion. Companies also do patents for pure IP sakes, so they have a portfolio when they go and try to sell themselves to another larger company.

Personally, if your an inventor or skilled engineer, you would do much better spending that money on marketing your product and making some money before the cheap imitations copy (if thats the case...nice...imitation is the best form of flattery right?) and price you out of the market. Hey if you came up with one whiz bang idea, im sure you have more and do it all over again, make some quick money and onto the next.

OK, I'm off the soapbox. Not to deter you from getting that nice plaque on the wall, but really need to think about what it is you have, and what you want to do with it. Reading the "fresh patents" website now and then, is an eye opener as well.