Too many jobs? 33

[Tunalover]

Folks, idealist that I am I have moved from one job to the next in my career trying to find an employer who not only cares about designing and delivering the products at hand but also cares to envision and implement an improvement program that will improve design engineering performance OVER THE LONG RUN. I am a long-run (and short-run) thinker but haven't found like-minded people in engineering management no matter where I've worked. Part of the problem has been that whenever I landed in such a short-sighted environment I allowed my attitude to "go south" and have never been able to adequately "kiss up" to management and put on a happy face to prevent from being canned by layoff or firing. I simply found that "regular guy" managers are far and few between. The best boss I ever had was demoted by a new manager that was not also a "regular guy" (narcissist with capital "N"). Why is it that so many people who get into management are promoted there with personality traits that you and I do not value in friend and family relationships? I have had so many narcissist managers I lost count!

So I resigned at one employer after two years working for the worst boss (and one of the worst people I'd ever met) of my career; an alcoholic narcissist electrical engineer (EE) who had worked only there his long career. I can fill pages about the guy but won't.

So I accepted this new position with a good salary and benefits in January 2017 after fine interviews where the hiring managers told me what I wanted to hear. On my first day I inherited a product someone else worked on but had moved on. I found using the ASME Y14.5 fixed fastener positional tolerance fit formula that the two highest-dollar custom manufactured parts (a circuit card assembly and a die-cast enclosure) in the design were toleranced so that they would not always fit when produced within the the drawing tolerances. I had been doing this same calculation for more than 30 years to make my custom parts dimensionally robust. I told the project lead the holes in the printed circuit board were much too small. He scoffed and said "we've been using that hole size for M3 screws for 20 years and have never had a fit problem!". I tried to explain to him that the company had been lucky to have diligent suppliers that maintained their tooling well in order to hit dimensions "dead nuts" all those years. I showed him the calculations and showed him the formula in the ASME standard but he dismissed me. I was not allowed to change anything. He was an EE. Even my functional manager was an EE! Can you imagine a place where all the MCAD designers and mechanical engineers are managed by an EE? My functional manager wouldn't listen either. When I took the job I believed I would be empowered to make and implement mechanical design decisions but it turned out that was not the case. The EEs controlled everything including the mechanical designs. It was micromanagement run amok. They believed they knew all there was to know about the mechanical design of electronic products.

Then, also on my first day, I was invited to a meeting where I was to meet another mechanical engineer (ME) who was going to provide his estimate to complete (ETC) to finish a design. As the senior ME in the room I asked him for his opinion on how long it was going to take to complete the design and before he could open his mouth the project manager (the same EE as mentioned before) blurted out "five hours!". I was blown away! This EE felt he knew better than the ME as to how long it would take to finish the design! The ME went on to explain he needed 12 hours to complete the job and provided details as to why. The project lead listened to his presentation and the meeting was basically over but the ME was held to a five hour time-to-complete (which he did by taking risky shortcuts no doubt).

That was just my first day. It "took the wind out of my sails" and there was nothing in the coming months that helped me get that wind back. I went along for months finding the company was poorly managed in general and giving no credibility or respect to either of those managers (they did nothing to earn either) and they could tell. Eventually, no matter how well I did something it was heavily criticized. And my spirit continued to sink...I couldn't find a new job in time and I was fired by HR for my "poor attitude" and "poor performance".

Now that was just one mismanaged workplace of many I endured in my career and, frankly, I always enjoyed the freedom of moving along any time I wished after a year or two. But there were a few places that WERE fairly well managed but I stupidly moved along for better pay, benefits, location or whatever. But it gradually became harder and harder to find new work (contract or direct) due to my high mobility. But now I have more than 15 jobs on my resume. And when employers (and recruiters) see:
A. that I haven't worked since April 2017,
B. that I only worked at my last employer for four months, and
C. that I've had so many jobs,
in a week or two they drop me like a hot potato if they called at all. Of course no one explains why they pass me up. In the testy US business climate that would be too risky for most managers and recruiters I suppose. But I know why they do. Even when I provide them with sample work I get passed up (I doubt if anyone looks at it). Although I have vowed to become more tolerant of my next (and hopefully last) employer, it doesn't matter.

What to do now? We are in danger of losing our home since we can't pay the mortgage. I need good advice here. More urgently, I need a job ASAP!




ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

 

[MikeHalloran]

The electronics business suffers from a weak representation of the mechanical engineering profession. The profession is pushed aside and dismissed as trivial by people who make the assumption that it's just circuit boards in boxes with a few screws to hold them in. It is much more than that.

All true, but not likely to change. ... especially not likely to change on an initiative from HR, whose role was nicely explained by tygerdawg.

I used to write memos, and later emails, in length, form and attitude not unlike the one quoted above.
... but tilting at windmills is not appreciated, and doesn't pay well.

I once had a boss who would not even read a memo that was longer then three short paragraphs.
I didn't understand his reasoning then; I do now.
If you must write, write shorter.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[epoisses_]

epoisses you cherry-picked my post to paint the picture that I am cynical.

No I'm not painting any picture, it's just an image I got from reading diagonally what you wrote, and I wanted to send it back to you to see what happened. I did not cherry pick, I just did not read most of your post as I said. It's very long.

I think you should start your own business. That's my last and final advice

PS Don't be that guy who sends an endless email to HR. It falls back on you. You may have been right before you sent the endless email. After the endless email you're wrong. It works the wrong way. It's poisonous. If you had just talked with them you might have achieved something.

 

[jfpe]

When I interview candidates, I always look at their employment timeline. A functional resume just creates more work for me.

Multiple, short positions is a red flag for me. I don't want to train a new employee only to have them move on.


-JFPE

 

[jari001]

What networking have you done since last year? Are you exploring temporary contract style work to tide you over (if possible)? Is relocation possible - and I would earnestly look to see if your prospects are better elsewhere, as SandCounter mentioned. Can you reach out to the new boss that replaced the worst boss for any opportunities? Have you looked back at those places that in hindsight were good places to see if you have any bridges standing there?

I know how it feels when money is tight, and I hope you and your family won't be in such a position for much longer.

 

[1gibson]

Businesses make money. They pay people to come to work and help them make money. If you walk in the door only caring about perfection, and your suggestions will cost money instead of make money, what do you expect to happen?

"We've been doing just fine for 20+ years, but it must be our lucky day because someone finally came in to save us and on day 1 showed us how to spend time and money redesigning a product that we have had no issues with."

 

[SandCounter]

As engineers it is easy to lose the forest amongst the trees. The 3rd decimal place is important to us, but to a company it's only the second that makes cents. I work for a largish company (1k to 5k employee range) as the only mechanical engineer, my supervisor is in a different technical field, but one that is the heartbeat of our business. There is a reason for this structure. Yes, it can be annoying when the mechanical side is marginalized and colleagues don't see the importance of some of the finer points of the field, but the in big picture, mechanical is in a service role to the primary technical field. It cannot drive it, only support it and I feel I have contributed the most value when providing clever ways to get around otherwise restrictive mechanical requirements in ways that contract engineering and equipment vendors have no intere$t in doing.

I see it is perhaps similar in your field which you have described as "electronics packaging." Notice that even in the title, the driving aspect is the electronics. The packaging is in support of the electronics. This can be a humbling realization, I know, but your focus should be on helping your team get around hurdles, not creating new ones.

I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.

 

[JohnRBaker]

The 3rd decimal place is important to us, but to a company it's only the second that makes cents.

Was this an inadvertent pun? If so, it's a good one considering the context ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[SandCounter]

It was not inadvertent.

I used to count sand. Now I don't count at all.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Then you get a

for that.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[DavidKite]

“Scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist.” ― George Carlin

As an eng-tips MVP, you are no doubt a knowledgeable engineer. But after more than 30 years in the field, I'm guessing you have not complete your transformation from idealist to cynic. Take heed of TygerDawg's words. Good luck!

 

[12345abc6ttyui67]

Yikes, that email.

I'm not going to lie, even though I can sympathize with your situation, I would not hire you based on the attitude that you portray from your OP and that email to HR.

If you come across like that during interviews and daily work I can see the problem. Perhaps you are just frustrated and venting on here though.

I sense that you:
1) are a perfectionist
2) have a chip on your shoulder regarding working for those you deem 'inferior'

Neither are particularly useful in a work place.

 

[AidanMc]

IMO a good manager and engineer needs to be objective and self-reflective

After reading through, my advice would be to take a moment and examine the irony of your statement here.

It sounds like your job history is very frustrating but and full of difficult situations. If I were an HR or hiring manager, I'd want to know what you learned from that and how you've become a better person or employee. (At least in your email and OP) it doesn't seem like you've taken any time to self-reflect and figure out how to change tactics or improve. I hate to judge someone over just a few written words online but I think you need to take a hard look at some of the advice on here and see how you could change for the better.

I truly wish you the best of luck and I hope the job prospects turn around!

Aidan McAllister
Metallurgical Engineer

 

[Jboggs]

TunaLover, after 4 decades I can relate to many of your frustrations. Please take this advice in the manner in which it is offered: Those who think that being a good engineer is all it should take to succeed in an engineering career SHOULD be right. But they are wrong. I have known several in my years.

If you could elevate the study of human nature and interpersonal relationships to the same level as the study of engineering technology in your value structure, you will find much more career success. You may rebel against that statement. You may deny it. But the sooner you accept it as an unassailable truth the sooner you can put a painful history behind you.

The people evaluating your work and deciding your future are RARELY IF EVER "qualified" to do that. But that does not change the fact that they ARE doing it. Your job is really TWO jobs: One, be a good engineer, and Two, do whatever is necessary to convince those around you, ON THEIR OWN TERMS, that you are a good engineer AND EASY TO WORK WITH.

 

[MrHershey]

Would agree with others that self-reflection and perhaps a change (in location and/or career focus) are in order. Will be important to find the right situation and adjust your expectations to make it work.

May want to turn focus away from 'permanent' positions. With 15 jobs over I'm assuming 30-40 years, you have a long history of not sticking around. Regardless of what the reasons are, that's a huge red flag for those hiring for permanent positions. Companies probably won't be interested in spending a lot of time and money to find out if the 16th time is the charm.

May want to consider looking into contract work instead. They may not care as much about the 2-3 year stints if their contracts are of similar lengths. May be a better situation for you too. Perhaps you wouldn't feel the burning need to do things 'right' or improve their failing processes because there's likely no future with the company anyways, you're just a hired gun performing specific tasks for a prescribed amount a money. If you can stay motivated and actually do work through that situation, you may find it liberating.

May also make sense to just work for yourself. Not sure how freelance works in packaging world but may be worth pursuing. You have no coworkers or bosses to deal with and can be as nitpicky in processes as you want. On the negative side you have to actually run the business yourself.

 

[IRstuff]

Perfection is the enemy of good enough.

Perhaps running your own business might change your perspective on how things need to work, and why "science project" and "put your pencil down" are part of every program manager's lexicon,

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[ProEpro]

I once had a conversation with the plant manager and my boss the mechanical engineering manager at a tractor factory. I was The plant manager said that he wanted to give me a more concrete project. I said he should give the concrete projects to Jim because he was a civil engineer. My boss started laughing. The plant manger looked at me with a dumb expression. My boss explained that civil engineers built bridges out of concrete and mechanical engineers design machines. The plant manager had no idea there were different kinds of engineers the same way I had no idea there was a difference between sales and marketing or accounting and finance.

As someone else said if you are working on electronics packaging the EE or software is more important than the mechanical. One place I worked like that had a saying "Everyone thinks they are a mechanical engineer". You have learned by now that it is the same everywhere. Maybe you would prefer an industry without electronics? I have moved into one and while the scope of the projects are smaller it is more fun.

I suggest focusing on contracting even cad work. You may have to move again to a place that needs more contractors. Otherwise move into an adjacent field maybe applications engineering, manufacturing, project management or something that interests you besides engineering. More than a year out of work tells you something needs to change (which I think is why you posted this). When you were being honest you admitted that you sometimes moved for reasons other than bad bosses that you now regret. The first impression from your resume that you are a short timer is correct. You need to find a job where that doesn't matter.

Is there a field where your personality is a better fit? Would your perfectionism become an asset in a regulated industry like medical or nuclear?

BTW it is O.K. to vent here and admit your are desperate. When talking to someone about the job you can explain you are available to start right way but beyond that if they see you as desperate they will either take advantage of you or avoid you.

Have you gotten a job at somewhere like Home Depot or a local factory to the keep the cash flowing while looking for another job?

 

[Tunalover]

ProEpro-
Being out of work this long does not mean I'm ill-suited for design engineering (FYI I am getting calls and emails from recruiters daily).

What it says is that I have consistently been "the nail that sticks out and gets pounded flat". It means that, because I have not deviated from my principles, I have never hesitated to be "the nail that sticks out" again when poor mechanical engineering design decisions are being made. So many guys go through their careers like obedient sheep, do as their told, right or wrong, and collect paycheck after paycheck for years on end. Whatever the boss says is gospel and the boss is never wrong. The truth is the boss (especially an EE managing MEs) is often wrong. But a good engineering manager needs to be self-reflective and understand that he doesn't know everything, that he can't do an ME's job (that is if he's an EE managing MEs), that he must rely on his guys to help him and he must be a "regular guy" as much as possible with his people (be approachable, be humble, be a good communicator, recognize good work and sacrifice,...).

Here's an example where I was the "nail that stuck out but got pounded flat". A company I worked for was all EEs and SEs except me. I was the first ME there. My boss was an EE and all the company managers were EEs. Their products contained high-density Compact Personal Computer Interface (cPCI) circuit boards doing RF and high speed data manipulation. The boards were in card cages within products that were used indoors and were adequately cooled because each product would have maybe three or at most four CCAs dissipating heat and the air was at room temperature and there were fans blowing air directly over each CCA. Management wanted (and smartly so) to design each CCA to serve a specific, yet fairly common task among their product line so the CCAs can be used in multiple products. But the EEs violated the cPCI design standard (i.e. with regard to trace separations and widths) so they could pack as much as possible on each board. Sure that's OK if they were willing to take that risk. But for grounding and conducting heat out, the cPCI spec called for a minimum width Cu strip along each board edge. But they chopped away at that width so they could pack more components on the boards. I don't recall exactly but they may have cut that width down to 1/3 the width required by the cPCI spec. No thought went into thermal design since all the early prototype boards had worked without overheating (indoors with air blown over them).

Then we started designing a ruggedized product to go in a backpack and be carried around in the field in desert climates. The design needed to have, if I recall correctly, 12 CCAs (many more than their other products) and the operational temperature was much higher. But management wanted to use the same CCAs used in the indoor products. The only way to get heat out of the boards was by conduction into the card cage through those two skinny little Cu strips. It was not possible in this design to blow air over each board. I did calculations and told them the strips were much too narrow and we would have to spin an entirely new set of boards to at least give back the cPCI standard side strips for heat conduction and grounding. Although I proved by analysis the product would overheat, they refused to spin new boards for good thermal performance. I persisted in telling management that the product would overheat outdoors and indoors . No one listened or looked at my calculations. And I got increasingly agitated that no one would pay attention to the facts. Well the company reorganized and the mechanical design people (me and one designer) were taken out of Engineering and put under Manufacturing. The belief there was that MEs and mechanical designers did not belong in Engineering. I guess they didn't see those roles as being engineering roles? I don't know. They hired a new Manager of Mechanical Engineering (the role I was told could be mine when they hired me) and I welcomed him and got him up to speed. Two weeks later I was fired. Two months later I learned the new "outdoor military product" was repeatedly overheating and shutting down in the middle of functional training sessions of the customer in an air conditioned room. I heard the product was round filed. You can lead a horse to water but...



ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

 

[miningman]

well Im sorry to be the guy who says the emporor has no clothes but I see poor attitude and chips on both shoulders here. The OP admits to being out of work for 16 months and is in danger of losing his house but seems to be unable to recognize the main problem. His disdain for electrical engineers is not exactly understated . I can only imagine how he comes across to any and all EEs he works with..... including those he might report to. As per this other thread on engtips. getting work is becoming increasingly difficult for those of us with more than 10 years since graduation

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=443498

Despite a career that seems to be in excess of 30 years, I suspect he has zero knowledge of project management. I find it extremely frustrating to work with colleagues who have never been underground once in their life. but if they are my boss, I have no choice but to educate them , tolerate their areas of weakness. and learn to acknowledge their strengths that they bring to the table from other industries.

I doubt the OP will appreciate my comments but he did ask for advice and help..

 

[Tunalover]

miningman,
I don't discriminate against EEs. I only have disdain for those in decision-making positions who don't listen to the very people they hire to provide them with expert advice. In my case many were EEs. I have many good friends and respected colleagues who are EEs.

ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

 

[berkshire]

Miningman,
I find it Ironic that you linked my Job search foibles to this thread. Until the hammer dropped about my wife's dental bill, I was fat dumb and happy in my retirement just grabbing the odd Cad drafting job or aircraft repair at my leisure,more for my pleasure more than the cash, which of course is always nice, plus spending the odd hour on here helping other people where I could. Also remember I have only been looking for a week and most of my posts are dealing with the stupid antics of the recruiters. And it was /is Pub talk!

Tunalover has now been looking for a year, that is a little more serious

The biggest problem I have now is that recruiters are looking for full time help. Temp or contract work right now seems harder to come by but as I refine my job filters and link up with live recruiters instead of machines things are starting to shake out.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.