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Too many jobs? 33

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Tunalover

Mechanical
Mar 28, 2002
1,179
Folks, idealist that I am I have moved from one job to the next in my career trying to find an employer who not only cares about designing and delivering the products at hand but also cares to envision and implement an improvement program that will improve design engineering performance OVER THE LONG RUN. I am a long-run (and short-run) thinker but haven't found like-minded people in engineering management no matter where I've worked. Part of the problem has been that whenever I landed in such a short-sighted environment I allowed my attitude to "go south" and have never been able to adequately "kiss up" to management and put on a happy face to prevent from being canned by layoff or firing. I simply found that "regular guy" managers are far and few between. The best boss I ever had was demoted by a new manager that was not also a "regular guy" (narcissist with capital "N"). Why is it that so many people who get into management are promoted there with personality traits that you and I do not value in friend and family relationships? I have had so many narcissist managers I lost count!

So I resigned at one employer after two years working for the worst boss (and one of the worst people I'd ever met) of my career; an alcoholic narcissist electrical engineer (EE) who had worked only there his long career. I can fill pages about the guy but won't.

So I accepted this new position with a good salary and benefits in January 2017 after fine interviews where the hiring managers told me what I wanted to hear. On my first day I inherited a product someone else worked on but had moved on. I found using the ASME Y14.5 fixed fastener positional tolerance fit formula that the two highest-dollar custom manufactured parts (a circuit card assembly and a die-cast enclosure) in the design were toleranced so that they would not always fit when produced within the the drawing tolerances. I had been doing this same calculation for more than 30 years to make my custom parts dimensionally robust. I told the project lead the holes in the printed circuit board were much too small. He scoffed and said "we've been using that hole size for M3 screws for 20 years and have never had a fit problem!". I tried to explain to him that the company had been lucky to have diligent suppliers that maintained their tooling well in order to hit dimensions "dead nuts" all those years. I showed him the calculations and showed him the formula in the ASME standard but he dismissed me. I was not allowed to change anything. He was an EE. Even my functional manager was an EE! Can you imagine a place where all the MCAD designers and mechanical engineers are managed by an EE? My functional manager wouldn't listen either. When I took the job I believed I would be empowered to make and implement mechanical design decisions but it turned out that was not the case. The EEs controlled everything including the mechanical designs. It was micromanagement run amok. They believed they knew all there was to know about the mechanical design of electronic products.

Then, also on my first day, I was invited to a meeting where I was to meet another mechanical engineer (ME) who was going to provide his estimate to complete (ETC) to finish a design. As the senior ME in the room I asked him for his opinion on how long it was going to take to complete the design and before he could open his mouth the project manager (the same EE as mentioned before) blurted out "five hours!". I was blown away! This EE felt he knew better than the ME as to how long it would take to finish the design! The ME went on to explain he needed 12 hours to complete the job and provided details as to why. The project lead listened to his presentation and the meeting was basically over but the ME was held to a five hour time-to-complete (which he did by taking risky shortcuts no doubt).

That was just my first day. It "took the wind out of my sails" and there was nothing in the coming months that helped me get that wind back. I went along for months finding the company was poorly managed in general and giving no credibility or respect to either of those managers (they did nothing to earn either) and they could tell. Eventually, no matter how well I did something it was heavily criticized. And my spirit continued to sink...I couldn't find a new job in time and I was fired by HR for my "poor attitude" and "poor performance".

Now that was just one mismanaged workplace of many I endured in my career and, frankly, I always enjoyed the freedom of moving along any time I wished after a year or two. But there were a few places that WERE fairly well managed but I stupidly moved along for better pay, benefits, location or whatever. But it gradually became harder and harder to find new work (contract or direct) due to my high mobility. But now I have more than 15 jobs on my resume. And when employers (and recruiters) see:
A. that I haven't worked since April 2017,
B. that I only worked at my last employer for four months, and
C. that I've had so many jobs,
in a week or two they drop me like a hot potato if they called at all. Of course no one explains why they pass me up. In the testy US business climate that would be too risky for most managers and recruiters I suppose. But I know why they do. Even when I provide them with sample work I get passed up (I doubt if anyone looks at it). Although I have vowed to become more tolerant of my next (and hopefully last) employer, it doesn't matter.

What to do now? We are in danger of losing our home since we can't pay the mortgage. I need good advice here. More urgently, I need a job ASAP!




ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993
 
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Tunalover

I never said anything about you being "ill-suited for design engineering". I said if you can't get the job you want and don't want to move you to need to expand your options.

Find an industry that needs people for short jobs and turn your weakness into a strength. Design houses, consultants, oil & gas and contract manufacturers come to mind.

You like telling other people they are wrong. Maybe you could be a consultant or expert witness.

Networking works. When I was unemployeed for close to a year after 9-11 it was an old coworker that found me my new job. With 15 jobs you should have some contacts or previous employers you can go back to. That will eliminate the issues with the number of jobs because they already know you and the work you do.

best of luck
 
I work in a similar industry, including multiple projects that have involved complicated thermal mitigations and have always had EE bosses. Working with other disciplines has always contributed positively to my long term growth as an engineer. Like any relationships, they work best when based on mutual respect, it sounds like that was missing on at least one side.

There have also been projects that blew up when thermal analysis was needed and not performed. The decision was made at risk due to schedule or due to missing requirements (like ambient operating temp of 85C, that was a big one). In those cases what matters most is how you address the problem and work to fix it. I told you so's never help.

I agree with some of the other posters that an effort to understand the other competing project concerns would go a long way. The old saying "Quality, Cost, Schedule. Pick two" comes to mind, you seem to only be concerned about one of them.
 
I can relate to the frustration voiced by the OP in his endeavors to improve the products that are being designed and built by the companies he has worked for. To this day I have observed fundamental design flaws that could have easily been avoided derail a product or project, resulting in late shipments to angry customers. Unlike the OP, I tend to not look back in anger at the situations themselves. I treat these situations as opportunities to educate the people around me. And I will usually explain to them in a very non-confrontational manner that if they would include me during the initial design stages of these products that many of these crippling problems we are struggling with at the last minute would not happen at all. This becomes their motivation for seeking me out. And after several years of doing this, they now come to me asking for advice on how to proceed, and many of these problems no longer occur.

But some of the people problems encountered by the OP also frustrate me to this day. The attitude that I eventually developed and have openly shared with people in meetings is this - all I ask is that you listen to what I have to say, consider it, and then do what you think is right. I have never had a single person fault me for this. And they will often seek me out for advice because of it.

But I am not without my own personal opinions regarding certain individuals or groups of employees. I personally hope there is a special place in hell for many of the unethical sales scumbags I have been forced to work with over the years, as well as many of the MBAs in particular.

Maui

 
ProEpro-
ProEpro said:
You like telling other people they are wrong. Maybe you could be a consultant or expert witness.
FYI I don't not like telling other people they are wrong. I use my experience, education, and knowledge to make recommendations and improvements based on rock-solid substantiation. And no one who has reviewed my "rock-solid" substantiation in detail has taken issue with it. The old adage has held true over and over again: "You can lead a horse to water but..."

ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993
 


C. that I've had so many jobs,...

I've kind of been in the same boat myself: I'm averaging about 3 years per employer. One thing that doesn't hurt is: it's been with some of the same employers. There is one company I've been with on 3 separate occasions. And there is another I've been with twice (for a total of 9 years). If your experience is similar.....it might help to emphasize that. A lot of recruiters have forgotten about all the job changes once they've seen that. (It lets them know you do good work and get asked back.)

If not, perhaps a resume that emphasizes skills would be better. I use to have one version that mentioned all that up front and saved the employment history for last.

If all else fails, and you've got bills to pay....you may have to become a road warrior: I.e. a shopper. It sounds like you are married so you have someone to hold down the fort at home.
 
MrHershey-
MrHershey said:
May want to turn focus away from 'permanent' positions. With 15 jobs over I'm assuming 30-40 years, you have a long history of not sticking around. Regardless of what the reasons are, that's a huge red flag for those hiring for permanent positions. Companies probably won't be interested in spending a lot of time and money to find out if the 16th time is the charm.
Maybe I failed to mention that just under half my jobs were contract roles. Part of my problem is that I fell into the "contracting" trap where there are no benefits and, even if you put the word contract in bold print ahead of the job summary, it doesn't hit home with the readers that many of the jobs were short-term by design and the reader walks away with the impression the candidate is a habitual job hopper. Also, although contract rates have unfortunately dipped below those of ten years ago, I can't seem to get a contract role either! About 40% of my jobs were contract. My last direct role paid more per hour than the rates I'm hearing now from job shop recruiters. And that was a direct role was with full benefits. Contracting (a misnomer because there is no contract) has long since evolved to where the pay no longer compensates for the lack of benefits.

ElectroMechanical Product Development
(Electronics Packaging)
UMD 1984
UCF 1993
 
Perfection is all well and good but it doesn't pay the bills.
We go to work to make money, we don't go to work to put the world to rights, If as Engineers our advice isn't taken, well at least we have given it and the finger cant be pointed at us when it goes wrong.

 
You're very likely a victim of age discrimination. Try updating your resume to only include the last 10 to 15 years worth of positions, remove the date of college graduation if present, if you're using a dated email server (yahoo or hotmail or such) start a gmail account. If you have a lot of grey hair, I'd color it.

Are you only applying to only electronics packaging positions? If so consider expanding what you're willing to do (this would also get you away from the EE managers you don't seem to like). If all your experience is in electronic packaging, consulting as others have mentioned for a high hourly wage as a 1099 contract might work.

What geographic area have your past positions been in? If fairly close, have you "used up" the available employers for your speciality in your area? Can you relocate? Can you do an apartment during the and come home on the weekends type of thing?

Conventional wisdom is when speaking with potential new employers, don't bad mouth old employers no matter how bad they might have been. Stay upbeat when speaking with the recruiters who are calling you.

If it needs saying, work on keeping your attitude "up north", work on your "kissing up" skills, Happy Face, and keeping your head down so you're not pounded down. Don't be confrontational. I've learned the hard way that getting angry with your manager, regardless of the reason, never goes your way. Give your employer your best advice, and make sure to document it, but remember you get paid if they take it or not so don't take it personally if they don't, just know you did your best to let them know of the problems and leave it at that.

Good luck.
 
Jboggs said:
TunaLover, after 4 decades I can relate to many of your frustrations. Please take this advice in the manner in which it is offered: Those who think that being a good engineer is all it should take to succeed in an engineering career SHOULD be right. But they are wrong. I have known several in my years.

If you could elevate the study of human nature and interpersonal relationships to the same level as the study of engineering technology in your value structure, you will find much more career success. You may rebel against that statement. You may deny it. But the sooner you accept it as an unassailable truth the sooner you can put a painful history behind you.

The people evaluating your work and deciding your future are RARELY IF EVER "qualified" to do that. But that does not change the fact that they ARE doing it. Your job is really TWO jobs: One, be a good engineer, and Two, do whatever is necessary to convince those around you, ON THEIR OWN TERMS, that you are a good engineer AND EASY TO WORK WITH.

I think this is very good advice. I've been grumpy since Monday morning. Haven't been feeling well, stressed out because work keeps piling up from our number one customer, etc. I've sent out too many grumpy emails this week (I work remotely) and due to this advice (and my own self reflection) I am writing an apology note to the receivers of the grumpy emails.

I have to send these apology emails from time to time. It's way easier to be mean to people remotely than in person. Trust me.

Anyway, I think it is more than just engineering advice. I think 'don't be a jerk' is an excellent motto. It doesn't help anyone or any team when you are a jerk. It makes me feel really bad to be a jerk too.

Hope you get a new job.

Cheers,
 
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