Tools - Expressions

[phillpd]

NX 7.5.1.5

One for John Baker.

John, up through NX7 we've been able to use the 'old' expression dialog (pre-NX3) by the use of a MEN file in the Startup folder (instructions were provided through GTAC).

Can you tell me whether this dialog is now finally retired in NX 7.5 ?

 

[JohnRBaker]

I honestly wish GTAC would stop being an enabler by perpetuating the use of out-of-date and obsolete dialogs. If it were up to me, users would have ONE release to transition and then it would be 'adios' to the old stuff.

BTW, if I discover that this is still possible with NX 7.5 I will personally see to it that it's removed for NX 8.0 once and for all.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[cowski]

There there, GTAC...
It's OK, we still love you.

thread561-280195

 

[phillpd]

John,

If you provided a dialog that offered the same level of usability as the original, I wouldn't still be using it

The new one has a great choice of filters, but where's the filter allowing me search both sides of the = sign simultaneously ?

To be honest, the company I work for, whether they're new users (NX Seies), or old users (per-V10), once they've been shown the 'old' dialog, they never use the new one again.

Here's hoping it's still available, at least through NX7.5.

Failing that, I guess we'll have to write our own ;-)

 

[JohnRBaker]

Have you opened a PR pointing out this regression in our software?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[BOPdesigner]

Is this the same John Baker that touts how the current NX version can open an assembly that was last saved in UG version 9? I personally wish that a version of NX lived up to its meaning (Next Generation) and was designed from the ground up, fresh, leaving all that old baggage behind. IMO, by dragging it along on from release to release the developers are being restricted on being able to make the GUI and dialogs and system performance as great as they could be.

 

[JohnRBaker]

As long as we're expected to continue to support 7 year old Expression dialogs, 4 year old Hole creation dialogs and 2 year old Transformation dialogs (actually these dialogs are MUCH older than that, just that they were replaced with something more modern 7, 4 and 2 years ago) I will have to agree with you.

However, as for being able to open legacy part files (the file I keep for that demo, when it comes up, was last saved some 17+ years ago in UG V9.1), that's a totally different issue and has very little, if anything, to do with the 'look & feel' of the current User Interface or for that matter the performance of the system.

P.S. To keep myself honest I just tested opening that 17+ year old file in NX 7.5.2.4 and it worked just fine (next week I'll be testing an early phase of NX 8.0 and this'll be one of the first tests which I'll be doing ;-)

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[phillpd]

John,

I use Move Object and the new Hole dialog, never looked back, excellent improvements on the old stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I get the new expression dialog, it does make the old one look "OLD". Expression units though, don't need them. Just cause issues, especially when you get into interpart expressions.

As to a regression ... I had many conversations with GTAC (and Development) back in the NX3 days about this. A result of which was the inclusion of the 'Sort Ordering' and finally the ability to access the old dialog.

I guess my one outstanding complaint is the inability to filter on both sides of the = sign. Consider the attached image, is this possible with the current dialog ? Assuming it isn't, is it worth me calling it in as a regression ?

 

[edgray]

I've never wanted this functionality but now that you have demonstrated it I definately see the value of listing the variable and all the expressions that use it in a list in the dialogue. This is just a search function it seems like it shouldn't be a major hassle to implement as an enhancement. Add my vote to it. You can do a where used and get a popup listing, but that is not the same at all.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I'm sorry, but if we get NO OFFICIAL feedback, such as PR's and ER's, indicating that something is considered a 'regression' or a 'gap' in the functionality of the product, don't expect us to do much about it. Also, this lack of official feedback is no excuse for us to just cave-in and provide access to what is a dialog that's nearly 15 years old and which will never be updated meaning that it will no longer be documented, it will not be supported in Journals and God forbid some error were to crop-up, would NOT be fixed.

Now that being said, I did have a conversation yesterday with the team responsible for the Expression system and the relevant dialogs, and there is some recognition that perhaps it's time to make a few changes/additions, if for no other reason than to accomodate some significant enhancements being made in terms of some new types of Expressions that users will be able to create and use in other applications (which BTW will NOT be available to you if you're still using the legacy dialog).

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[phillpd]

A PR has been accepted

 

[JohnRBaker]

Can you give me the PR number so that I can reference it in the write-up I'm doing covering this and some other suggestions which I'm in the process of making to the product team responsible for Expressions and the relevant dialogs?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[phillpd]

It's 6411186

 

[potrero]

thank you phillpd and jb

 

[phillpd]

This is the BIG one that annoys me every time with the current expression dialog :

ToolDia = Length
ExitAngle = Angle

Using the pre-NX3 Expression dialog, the following works :

ExitAngle=if(ToolDia>=14&&ToolDia<=16)60 else 0

With the current Expression dialog that would throw a "Dimension mismatch" error and I have to format it as per :

ExitAngle=if(ToolDia>=MM(14)&&ToolDia<=MM(16))60 else 0

So annoying !

 

[JohnRBaker]

Or you could create two expressions, the first being with dimensionality 'Constant':

check1=if(ToolDia>=14&&ToolDia<=16)60 else 0

And the second, with dimensionality 'Angle':

ExitAngle=check1

Granted, it's an extra Expression, but you don't need to mess with units when you're only performing a logic operation.

BTW, I may have some news in a few weeks on the issue for which you originally started this thread.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[phillpd]

What's real confusing is that I only need to use the MM( ) when I make use of <, or >.

This works :

ExitAngle=if(ToolDia=14||ToolDia=16)60 else 0

 

[JohnRBaker]

Which is why, as a personal 'best practice', I always try to separate logical expressions (using dimensionality 'Constant') from parametric expressions so that I never have to worry about whether or not units are going to be a factor.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[uwam2ie]

where is the lock in Nx3 and afterwards in the expression editor?
tia

 

[phillpd]

Which is why I always use the pre-NX3 Expressions dialog, everything is a constant, and I don't have to contend with the units mismatch issues

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to your forthcoming news.