Training New Hires 25

[HSThompson]

OK, This isn't a technical question but one that I am sure that we are struggling with. We, like everyone, are hiring new stressers everyday. I've been a stress engineer since '91. I was trained in the old Boeing way, find the grizzliest old stress guy you could, then shut-up and listen. In addition, at Boeing we had the Tech Excellence classes.

My problem is this, the OEM I’m at now does not have very good training courses, and there aren’t enough grizzlies to go around. We’re getting worn out explaining the same things over and over to a different person; i.e. IDT, Mc/I, Cripple, Buckle, Repairs, DADT, FEM, Load Paths, FAR’s, what references to buy etc. etc., etc.

My question is this, for all you old timers and newbies out there, what are some training methods you have used or seen that can get them up to speed and quickly? I can think of a few but a fresh perspective would be nice.

 

[IRstuff]

How about writing a FAQ? You could even post it here and make your visit even more work related ;-)

TTFN

 

[tbuelna]

I don't think "Boeing" and "Tech Excellence" should be used in the same sentence.

 

[GregLocock]

Yeah, all those 747s tumbling out of the sky.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[wes616]

Being on the Design end of a/c engineering, I am always fascinated with things I can do to better my designs before sending them to stress (and I consider myself a perpetual stress newbie) . I'd be very much interested in reading a training "faq" here about being a stress eng.

Wes C.
------------------------------
When they broke open molecules, they found they were only stuffed with atoms. But when they broke open atoms, they found them stuffed with explosions...

 

[AminG]

I would be interested in seeing a FAQ for stress as well. I recall seeing a Boeing Stress manual - never had the chance of using it.

As to getting tired of answering the same questions - now you know how your prof's felt and how your supervisors felt when you were at your first real job.

 

[diamondjim]

I was the old guy on the block and trained
many underlings. It was always amazing to
me that many would come back with the same
questions rather than making a reference to
the source that I would give them the first
time they asked. I was quick to copy the
sources from the guy who trained me.
Is that familiar?

 

[GregLocock]

That always annoys me. I carried a notebook around for the first 6 years after graduating, even now I usually have the latest one in my bag. Asking the same question twice is sheer bad manners.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[RPstress]

The Cranfield (UK) Introduction to Aircraft Stress Analysis was a two week course which did a pretty effective intro. I don't have my course notes any more (it was over twenty years ago)...if anyone still has the contents for them it might make a good framework for a training course.

 

[planedr]

I am not an old timer, well I am, but not really. I find I am constantly training newbs out of great schools that don't really know that much. Design is great but try to fix a bad design and get it through stress, whether you are doing the stress or not.

I find the only way to start is proved them my list of newbie references and dircect them to the photocopier. I also tell them which ones to read first. I then will help with questions as we go.

Their reviews or my report to the supervisor will discuss whether they have read it (effort), whether they retained it, and whether they have chosen the correct field.

 

[crackman]

Well, next year will be my 20th in aerospace as a stress engineer and I can tell you without a doubt the days of training courses are all but over at any of the OEM. In addition, there just arent enough experienced people to go around at the OEM since they pushed many of them out of the industry during downturns and the rest into early retirement. It seems these days, the status quo is hire an army of new college grads and have them solid FEM every single CATIA drawing of a part there is, then write MS based on Von Mises. Never thought I would see the industry end up this way! In addition, it seems the OEMs really dont care anyways. They say they want to provide training but dont allocate the time. In fact, I think its ironic that the OEM spend an obscene amount of money to provide mandatory training for sexual harassment, export/import, diversity, etc, etc., etc. but cant spend a nickle for any substantial engineering courses. I have personally witnessed many good new engineers trown to the wolves without any training to end up quitting their jobs out of frustration and switching industries.

Anyways, I run a consulting company and we too have had to hire a couple of new hires BUT we made darn sure to set up a process to train them and make the appropriate time available. It consists of basically the following:

#1. Have them spend several weeks working real aircraft structures problems and getting familiar with all of the terminology, materials, and references (MMPDS, Bruhn, Aircraft Stress Manuals (BDM,SMM,etc.)). Above all, expect them to be able to perform FBD at a drop of a hat and understand all of the basic MS failure modes. This is the most fundamental of capabilities.
#2. Assign them tasks on topical subjects which provide them experience in the various aspects of structures (ie design and detailed joint stress analysis are the basics, then, other tasks such as internal loads, post-buckled behaviour, stiffened panels, etc.)
#3. Assign them increasingly more difficult problems with a focus on getting them proficient in every area.
#4. Make the TIME to provide guidance and help.

Anyway you look at it, it is a time consuming difficult task to train new stress engineers. BUT, we need to do it otherwise the whole industry will suffer. For anyone interested, I can email a pdf of a course MACAIR wrote twenty some years ago to train stress people. It is by no means exclusive but just a good sample of the type of problems to have new stress engineers work.

Also, just as an aside. MACAIR around the late 1960's use to give a test to all new direct hires and shoppers (before all of the employment restrictions were imposed). The test consisted of about 10 difficult but good sound structural problems all of which had to be completed by hand without references. Those who did not pass, were walked out that day. The old stressers of yeasteryear sure left some big shoes to fill. Unfortunately, I am not sure the industry is up to it anymore these days.

Good luck to all and hope this helps someone.

James Burd
Avenger Aircraft and Services

 

[SWComposites]

Yeah, the thought that everything gets dumped into a 3D FEM without any real understanding of load paths, materials and structural failure modes is downright scary. But it won't change until the next "Comet" disaster occurs. Some of us were appalled when the Airbus VP stated that the fact that the A380 wing failed at 1.47 DLL proved the accuracy FE analysis!

James-I hope you can retain the engineers that you spend the time to train.

Steve

 

[GregLocock]

James, can you estimate how much (a) time for the new hires and (b) mentoring/supervision time is involved?





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[crackman]

Unfortunately we no longer have "real" engineers running aerospace companies any more and they have NO idea as to the real value of experience and the need to have engineers trained in the fundamentals. It is all too common today to see 3D FEA of intercostals and shear clips. Can no one FB a clip anymore? I really do hope the industry learns this lesson without the need for any accidents.

I too hope that the young engineers who are getting mentoring appreciate it. Hopefully they will see the value of working with someone who is truly interested in helping them into the industry.

As for the time to train:
a) new hires - 1 year to just understand/appreciate the basics / 5 years of good work til they reach journeyman level where they can handle most stress tasks. Other more complex areas require more training such as FDT which requires about 2 to 3 years of solid training and hands on work.
b) mentoring/supervising - about 20% of a 40 hour work week.

Good luck all and lets hope ours is not a dying field.

James

 

[Asanga]

Hello all,
Very interesting and useful topic. Crackman, thank you for the tips. If its not too much trouble, may I have a copy of that PDF file on the stress course emailed to me? I am about to sign up also for the correspondance course by the Lake City Publishing group (Based on the Stress Analysis Book by Jean Claude Flabel). This would be an added guide to the course I think. Thank you again for sharing your wisdom.
Cheers
Asanga

 

[prost]

Crackman:
I'd be most grateful if you sent me a stress course PDF file too. How could I obtain it? thanks

 

[Lcubed]

Hi all,
For James Burd: What is the best way to get my email address to you? I would like a copy of the Macair document.
thanks

 

[crackman]

If anyone is interested, just send me your email address (you can do this by going to

http://www.avengeraircraft.com

and using the Contact Us tab and email me from there) and I will post it off to you. The file is pdf format and its 4.4MB so make sure your email can handle it.

James Burd
Avenger Aircraft & Services

 

[StressMan2506]

Hi SWComposites:

Firstly, the Airbus VP who "stated that the fact that the A380 wing failed at 1.47 DLL proved the accuracy FE analysis" is not at the frontline of Airbus wing stressing. Secondly, Airbus wing stressing is not solid-element FE all the way; it is nothing like that at all. A stiffness model up of plates, shells & bars is run and the stresses arising used in a multitude of computerised manual-type calculations. Maybe more judicious use of FE would have produced a better result...

 

[crackman]

Just as a note, the MACAIR stress course was developed (over 20 years ago) for the USAF Air Logistic Centers to train liasion engineers in basic airframe stress analysis. Not a bad cut at it, though there are many other very good ones around.

James Burd