Ukraine Power Plants - Part 2 3

[bones206]

Thought it would be a good time to start a fresh thread, since recent developments have put everyone on alert again.

Part 1: thread815-492582

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Don't assume anything. You don't understand the cultural logic.

Thankfully this time of year the winds in Ukraine blow to the east and south east. Which means most of the fall out will get dumped on the prime agricultural land of Russia

 

[RedSnake]

https://hromadske.ua/posts/rosiyani-vikrali-gendirektora-zaporizkoyi-aes-energoatom[/URL]]The Russians detained the general director of the Zaporizhzhya NPP and took him to an unknown destination - "Energoatom"

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[RedSnake]

https://www.iaea.org/nuclear-safety-and-security-in-ukraine

Well they got it connected again.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[bones206]

These workers are incredible... I wonder if Russia is managing these alternating artillery strikes to critical infrastructure and the subsequent repairs, as some kind of strategic brinksmanship -- or if it's all just chaos and incompetence with mad scrambles to get power back online before the plant melts down.

 

[electricpete]

Lost power, restored power, lost power again...

https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrai...rizhzhia-loses-external-power-deeply-worrying

In a statement on Wednesday [10/12/22], International Atomic Energy Agency Director-General Rafael Grossi said all external power needed for vital safety systems was shut down for the second time in five days.

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(2B)+(2B)' ?

 

[charliealphabravo]

Hi all.

Sry for off topic but I wanted to confirm. I don't see a thread for the latest Crimean Bridge incident.

I think it is a pretty interesting forensic puzzle since there are conflicting stories as to the cause (from below or from above) and there are several videos and photographs that would be interesting to analyze.

Anyway I wondered if there was a thread yet or a particular reason why, if not.

TIA.

 

[RedSnake]

It is included a bit in the Pipeline pressure loss thread.
I agree with you it is interesting even though it isn't a failure even though it was a bit of a disaster even if it was man made, I am not sure if it would be allowed as it's own thread.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[hokie66]

It's more of an engineering success story than failure. But you can start a thread if you want.

 

[bones206]

There is some reporting that Russia may be preparing a detonation at the Zaporizhizha NPP.

 

[TugboatEng]

Don't forget the story about Russia detonating chemical weapons in a trench. It didn't take much amateur investigation to determine that they were sea mines.

 

[bones206]

US State Dept is scheduled to hold a briefing at 2:00 EST.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...-as-fears-grow-over-russian-use-of-dirty-bomb

Energoatom, the Ukrainian state enterprise that operates the country’s four nuclear power plants, said Russian forces have carried out secret construction work over the last week at the occupied Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant in Ukraine.

Russian officers controlling the area won’t give access to Ukrainian staff running the plant or monitors from the U.N.’s atomic energy watchdog that would allow them to see what they are doing, Energoatom said in a statement issued Tuesday.

Energoatom said it “assumes … (the Russians) are preparing a terrorist act using nuclear materials and radioactive waste stored at (the plant).” It said there were 174 containers at the plant’s dry spent fuel storage facility, each of them containing 24 assemblies of spent nuclear fuel.

“Destruction of these containers as a result of explosion will lead to a radiation accident and radiation contamination of several hundred square kilometers (miles) of the adjacent territory,” the company said.

 

[RedSnake]

There is a real threat here.

The Russians are trying to scare the west, EU, US, NATO to stop giving Ukraine weapons, by claiming that the Ukrainians are making a dirty bomb (nothing they haven't done before).
Calling every military minister they can find and calling for meetings in UN.

Things are far from going the Russians way right now.

There is two scenarios here.

1. They are setting this up and leaks the information so everyone actually thinks they are going to make a nuclear disaster, trying to force the West, to force Ukraine to the negotiation table, which they have tried for some time now.
The Ukrainians just say, we will never negotiate with Putin he isn't trustworthy and we won't negotiate until your troops are outside our boarders including Crimea.

2. They are doing a false flag op.
And they actually plan to make a nuclear disaster happen in Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant, which is located in Enerhodar.
Just because they are bad looser and they think it might make the Ukrainians back down which won't happen.
And then they will blame them for it.

That they have been doing "funny" stuff and having explosives and ammo there is nothing new.

The only thing that is a bit alarming is that they have started moving out some of there militaries from the city.
That they are "evacuating the west side of Dnieper in Kherson is one thing, they are a bit stuck there, but they really don't have any good reason to evacuate Enerhodar which is on the east side.
Besides that the Ukraniens are hitting there living quarters in the city with HIMARS and stuff.



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Overvoltage]

I hope you're wrong, Red, but there's a lot of truth in those statements. Scary times.

 

[Factoter]

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-po...n-pretext-for-escalation-joint-statement.html

“At the same time, it is noted that the heads of defense agencies of the three states previously spoke with Russian defense chief Sergei Shoigu, at the latter’s request.

“The statement also says all three countries expressed a single position, namely that they "reject Russia’s transparently false allegations that Ukraine is preparing to use a dirty bomb on its own territory."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Ukrainians have a plan.

the wind is going to Russia direction. And that's over were most of their food is produced.

 

[RedSnake]

The Ukrainians have no intention of setting of any dirty bombs, that wouldn't be in their interest and they don't need it either.

It might be plausible that the Russians are building a dirty bomb in the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant that they then are going to take away somewhere else and detonate.

They can't blame the Ukrainians for making a dirty bomb that has detonated in the NPP, because they didn't have to build one in the first place to make a disaster there, the only thing needed was a shell or a missile in the right "wrong" place.

Which they have blamed the Ukrainians for all the time even though it is the Russians who are shelling the NPP.

Think the chance is greater they blow up the dam or part of the hatches in the hydro plant down streams instead.
What that might do to the cooling water to the NPP I don't know someone thought it might become a problem.
Not sure about that Dnieper is a long river so the water lever might not get that low even without the dam.



“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[TugboatEng]

Honestly, the dirty bomb story is most likely propaganda to get more money from the US government. Notice it's the US government talking about it and not NATO or anybody that would be affected directly by such a bomb. Also, why would Russia need a Ukrainian reactor to build such a bomb? Don't they have plenty of their own?

 

[RedSnake]

It is Russia that is saying that the Ukrainians are building a dirty bomb, and they definitely don't want US to give UA more money, the opposite, hopefully that is the only reason they are saying it.

Shoigu called both UK, France, Turkey and US claiming that UA was buiding this dirty bomb, and they told Russia to stop making false and dangerous accusations.

Ukraine are the ones saying it could be a false flag op.

Russia could make a bomb like that in Russia but it would be a much higher risk for them building it there and having to transport it to UA and much harder to do it without being detected, with potential witnesses.

Why walk over the stream to get water? as we say.

It isn't the first time Russia made this accusations and nothing have happened, but they are getting more and more desperate since they are loosing big time.
All they have is a lot of people but nothing else is working for them.
The record holder right now is 5 days from mobilization to dead and I think it was 6 days to captured.

When it didn't work out with the dirty bomb accusation they came up with this.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[electricpete]

The Ukrainians just say, we will never negotiate with Putin he isn't trustworthy and we won't negotiate until your troops are outside our boarders including Crimea.

I think that approach is on firm moral ground, but there is also the practical matter of how this thing will come to an end. Putin will never agree to such embarassing terms as having less territory than when the war special military operation started. I don't see any end in sight unless Ukraine gets more realistic about the negotiations.

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(2B)+(2B)' ?

 

[SWComposites]

Well, there is a non-zero chance that the Russian army will collapse and flee past the (real) Russian border. Getting them out of Crimea will be a bit harder, but stranger things have happened.