usable drawings from solidworks 1

[duk748]

hello - my company has had sw for 2 1/2 years now & we just do not seem to be able to get good anufacturing drawings out of sw -
they have scheduled some more training in just drawings a month from now & our manufacturing relies on drawings only for making parts for our machines - i am able to make really good drawings in 2d acad that are just like the drawings i used to make on the board but what i have seen from sw this has not been the case - most of our users seem to just throw dims on a sheet & call it a drawing - weird sections & x-hatch all the same, etc. -will the advanced training cure some of the problems or should we invest our money in a good voctional drafting class instead?? - thank you

 

[MadMango]

SolidWorks (any CAD) is just a tool. I doubt they teach actual "drafting practices" now, like they used to on the drawing board. I would say the most benefit would come from your engineers redlining and returning drawings to those creating them until they are up to standard. Vocational classes will also help, but the first option always seems to be the best due to internal work flow and company standards.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."


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[fsincox]

Training may help somewhat, things like section lining should be pretty much automatic.
I have worked, first with Pro-E, and then Solidworks since 1996 and would say 3D solid modeling has changed drafting practice in some ways. The things you saw in the old drafting texts shown as "the true view" vs "the prefered method" are now really no longer followed.
Frank

 

[ptruitt]

I liked MadMango's comment: "...until they are up to standard." Without Standards, internal and/or external, the ability of a CAD system (or PDM...) to support a company's mission can only be determined subjectively. A company needs an adequate and lean documentation system with enough formality to provide guidance when evaluating software or personnel (...or any number of things.) If your Standards dictate that you need to meet textile drawing standards, I would agree that Solidworks is not the best tool. I would not want to make too many textile drawings using Solidworks. Training should do the trick if you are documenting the design of most machined or molded things using Solidworks.

Peter Truitt
Minnesota

 

[MintJulep]

I see this all the time on vendor "drawings" from many different packages.

I call the process "the dimension shot gun".

A few mouse clicks and BOOM all sorts of dimensions, views and sections appear.

Dimension text overwrites features.

Dimensions make no sense with respect to the function of the part.

Dimensions on assembly drawings that can in no way be affected by the process of assembling parts together.

It's not the tool, it's the users. No one knows how to make a good drawing anymore.

 

[KENAT]

It's mostly the users, although SW and other CAD systems do allow you to do things that are 'wrong' to ASME drawing stds etc. Often because lots of users asked for it.

Of all the 3D CAD systems I've seen the one with the nicest drawings has been Solid Edge however it's still mostly dependent on the user.

The advanced training may help with knowing how to do what you want.

However, you still need to know what you want and communicate this to everyone and have some kind of training (though redline & correct seems the most effective) and then enforce it. The vocational drafting class may help as long as it conforms to whatever standards you work to.

Some things you may be able to fix by changing settings in your templates etc. but not everything.

I was originally brought into my existing employer in part to fix a similar situation. Thankless task.

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[duk748]

hello again & thank you for the replies - i had to use this forum to vent my frustrations due to my company not having a standard - our standard seems to be whatever day of the week you talk to someone who works here - i came from a large corporation 15 years ago where std.s were enforced & everyone came up thru the ranks having had some drafting cources during college or trade school -
i try to enforce the correct ways of making manufacturing dwgs. even to the point of have bought the genium drafting man. myself as a guide but our group has some that are preaching the solidworks line as the only way as opposed to making things the right way - sorry about the long reply but it is difficult sometimes being the old guy - thanks for a shoulder to cry on

 

[MintJulep]

Case in point just arrived on my desk.

The design intent appears to be to require that 8 mounting pads be co-planer within 1 mm.

The drawing creator has drawn a line across the mounting pads in two views. Then in each view has pointed a leader at this line and called out "Datum Plane".

Next they have applied a dimension to this line. The dimension is 0 +/- 1.

The drawing will not be approved (yet again).

 

[KENAT]

Well there's your first problem duk748, if your company doesn't have any official or strongly implied drawing standards (and that includes just having ASMEY14.100 & 14.5 referenced in title block or std notes etc.) then you can't win.

Trying to impose what you think are correct standards without management and preferably most colleagues on board will just make you unpopular.

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[pmarc]

MintJulep,

The design intent appears to be to require that 8 mounting pads be co-planer within 1 mm...

Next they have applied a dimension to this line. The dimension is 0 +/- 1.

I would say co-planar within 2 mm.

 

[duk748]

hello again - yes - already experienced the "dirty looks" & side bar complaints - oh well - i as those that are here in this forum will not compromise my stds. - right is right

 

[SDETERS]

How many parts are coming in messed up or goofed up per the Poor drafting practices? If you can put a cost on having these parts reworked or redone due to messy drawings then you could make a case with just the $$ alone. I would think if the drawings are the terrible then the parts you get from these drawings and or models are not up to par.

 

[drawoh]

duk748,

I agree with the others about the software and operators. My SolidWorks drawings are not absolutely as good as my old AutoCAD drawings, but they are still pretty good. SolidWorks is an adquate drafting too.

I suggest bringing in someone to provide training in GD&T. I don't think most people actualy understand the standards. After that, you are going to have to get your company to implement standards, and then reject the crappy work.

JHG

 

[TheTick]

Your drafters are simply ignorant or lazy. Nothing in your initial post indicates a problem with SW. Poorly dimensioned = drafter dimensioned poorly. Xhatches all the same = drafter did not check or modify any.

Invest time in drafting practices and cut your losses on the non-learners.

 

[dgallup]

At least with a solid modeling program all your views are consistent and the part is physically realizable. We have acquired products from many other companies over the years & I can't tell you how many of those hand drawn or 2D AutoCAD drawings had gross errors such that it would be physically impossible to make a conforming part. Then I have to try to figure out which views/dimensions/details to ignore/delete/correct.

I agree, the novice engineer/designer/draftsperson these days is woefully ignorant of drafting standards, GD&T, etc. Sitting them down on at a drawing board only slows the rate that they produce garbage.

 

[MintJulep]

Your drafters are simply ignorant or lazy

Why does it have to be one or the other? It seems quite possible to ignorant and lazy at the same time.

 

[drawoh]

duk748,

Stupid question we all have forgotten to ask...

What were your manufacturing drawings like before you installed SolidWorks?

JHG

 

[duk748]

sorry about the late post - our dwgs. were half way decent - alot better then what we or i have seen w/ sw - our shop foreman actually called here telling us that he had not seen dwgs this bad in 10 years - we really do not check anything here (trust me - that is another story for another time - management feels if someone is doing their job then we do not have to check anything)
yet they complain when drawings are bad, parts cannot be machined or fit & ecn's & assembly hours go thru the roof - also we have a bad problem here about getting things done right now just to get them released for manufacture - then they complain again about why sw's is taking so long to make parts - it is a no win situation & management has bought the idea that sw's is going to solve our manufacturing problems when in reality it is just as one poster said - lazy & sub-par work or workers - not my call on that one - too low on the ladder - thank you so much for the info & replies to all - have a great weekend

 

[MadMango]

You can always try to have peer reviewed drawings, it doesn't have to be complicated. Many times when working on drawings, one becomes blind to what's on the screen. It's simple to print out a check drawing and hand it to a new pair of eyes. This usually catches most of the sub-par and missing items.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."


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[ewh]

I have to agree with the majority here; drafting standards need to be inforced. SW can do good drawings, you just may have to hunt to find the settings that you need to change. In that regard, it would probably be a worthwhile investment to send one or two people to learn the admin side so that you can "massage" SW to produce a drawing with setings that you like. Or, you can research on your own, one issue at a time.
Peer review is much better than self-check, but remember that if you don't have anyone that is very familiar with the standards, mistakes will probably continue to be made. The fact that your drawing quality has gone down leads me to believe that the knowledge is there as far as drafting, you just have to get your hands dirty setting up SW better.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]