USS Bonhomme Richard fire, reopened thread...

[JohnRBaker]

This thread was closed some time ago:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=471471

But there is some new news:

The Navy Accused Him of Arson. Its Own Investigation Showed Widespread Safety Failures.

After the USS Bonhomme Richard fire, investigators found missing fire hoses, a broken sprinkler system and other systemic failures. The Navy is still accusing a sailor of arson, against the advice of a military judge.

https://www.propublica.org/article/bonhomme-richard-fire-safety-lapses#1442733

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

Wow... I don't believe that he was charged, and can face life in prison. At least they are not sending him a bill.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[spsalso]

This is remarkably similar to the Turret Two explosion on the Iowa, killing 47. There, the early version of the NCIS (NIS) decided that crewman Clayton Hartwig caused the explosion with a suicide attempt. There is a good book on this by Charles C. Thompson II: "A Glimpse of Hell".

It appears the NCIS is still a bunch of ignorant buffoons 30 years later.

Our Navy continually screws up, and I do wonder if they would be competent to be in warfare.


spsalso

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, when I was reading this, I couldn't help but recall the plot of the movie 'Paths of Glory' staring Kirk Douglas. He portrayed a WWI French Army officer assigned to the front line. One of his superior officers had fouled-up an attack which had turned into a military rout. So the high-command ordered the Douglas character to select three low-level soldiers at random, accuse them of cowardice, have them court-martialed and then publicly executed because they needed to punish someone for the disaster and it certainly wasn't going to be the high-ranking, and well-connected, officer who was ultimately responsible.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[spsalso]

What they're after is a person with intent.

What happens is a cascade of incompetence and ass-kissing and..., without the intent.

There are WAY too many admirals in the Navy.


spsalso

 

[TugboatEng]

There few shipyards left. There is no competition. Cost cutting must be done by cutting corners. Yard time is both expensive due to lack of demand and lack of suppliers (you need demand to maintain suppliers). If fire systems are disabled they should have been replaced by auxiliary systems.

Ship survivability is based on compartmentalization. It's too dangerous/there isn't sufficient manpower to fight fire. Containment is key. This is a problem because if you need to run hoses all over the ship to supplement off-line systems, you can't close doors to compartmentalize because the hoses are in the way. There is a lot to learn here. It's too bad the report is confidential.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

they won't learn anyway.

And neither will the Russians in Ukraine.

And bare this in mind when you read "studys" of the US and UK capability's against China in the Pacific. Don't fall into the same trap as the Russians did of believing the nonsense that the senior officers were putting out to further their careers.

 

[JedClampett]

Our Navy continually screws up, and I do wonder if they would be competent to be in warfare.

I'm guessing that it's no different than 80 years ago. We lost our battleship fleet, still managed to recover and beat the Japanese navy soundly. Of course, we could build ships, guns and manufacture ammunition faster and better than our enemies. But the good admirals and officers rose up (Halsey, Spruance, McCain, Nimitz, etc.) took command, and the mediocre ones stayed where they were. And even the good ones made huge mistakes. But the press was more agreeable so dirty laundry was kept secret, and as my late father said, "things were different."

 

[spsalso]

One can hope that there'll be enough time, next time, to do all that again.


spsalso

 

[cranky108]

Sounds like the movie Catch-22.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Have a look at the sound of mull Chinook crash and the cover up and pointing the finger at the dead.

 

[cranky108]

That's what we do. Blame the guy that just left the company. Why take the blame yourself?

I still have some respect for the military, but that is fading fast as I see more of how those people act when off duty.
Little respect for other people, and bad drivers to boot.

 

[spsalso]

In the case of the Iowa turret explosion, the "accused" had indeed left the company, being dead. Nor was there likely to be a trial where the government would have to prove their case. Since he was dead.

In the case of the Bonhomme Richard, it appears the "accused" has not left the company. If there is a trial, evidence will have to be produced. If it's at the same level as for the Iowa, it might prove to be a very interesting event!


spsalso

 

[dik]

Off the press...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-arson-setting-USS-Bonhomme-Richard-fire.html

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

I guess the system worked, particularity when you read thus in Dik's item:

Mays' defense added new information to the trial which indicated the Navy had another suspect they were previously investigating. The investigation was then dropped after the sailor was kicked out of the service.

...

For Mays's defense, his team argued the prosecution was biased. Use of the eyewitness was arbitrary as they reportedly changed their story several times and admitted they felt 'pressured' in naming a suspect.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[pmover]

historically, the USN has several incidents/accidents in which innocent people suffer, including civilians and the truth not be told. It appears this fella had the fortitude and evidence to prove otherwise.

 

[spsalso]

And a good lawyer. You always want a good lawyer.

And I don't mean this as a joke or a smart-ass comment.



spsalso

 

[dik]

I'm not so sure a good lawyer will help, when an outfit with lots of money decided to make an example of you.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[spsalso]

If a "good lawyer" was of no help, he would have been ahead keeping his money and just trusting that good will always prevail.


spsalso

 

[Eufalconimorph]

A good lawyer is (in general) necessary but not sufficient to be found "not guilty" of a crime you didn't commit.