Very quick question about US PE exams

[Ussuri]

As I understand the US licensing system your must pass a state exam to call yourself an Engineer (I wish the term Engineer was as protected in the UK, but thats another discussion), and that each of the states has their own board. You need a license to work in each state.

I notice from some of the member profiles that many of the learned contributors are licensed in 20-30 states.

If my knowledge of US geography holds up, there are 50 states. Does that mean that you have to take an 8 hour exam for each state? If I wanted to work anywhere in the US I would need to sit 400 hours of exams? Thats a lot!

 

[PSE]

Once obtaining a PE within a state, you can contact the licensing board of another state and petition to be licensed there through reciprocity. That is, they may grant you a license to practice without having to retake the exam.

There is some debate on how well protected the title of engineer is protected in the US. Offering public services requires licensure. Working for a company under the industrial exemption does not.

Regards,

 

[Ashereng]

You don't need a license to work in each state. It depends on the work and industry.

In many instances, you can to "engineering" work without a PE license.

I believe one example is the auto industry.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Information straight from the source (National Council of Examiners for Engineering & Surveying), follow the link on this page

http://www.ncees.org/licensure/

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[zdas04]

PSE said it very well, the state may grant you a license, but they are not obligated to grant you a license and often an engineer's qualifications in one state are deemed inadequate by an adjacent state (I think there is some petty bickering between the boards). There are many tasks that you can do in a state where you are not licensed, but there are also specific tasks that you can't do.

Calling yourself an engineer is another topic. If I'm licensed in New Mexico I can hand out a card in Texas(where I'm not licensed) that identifies me as an engineer as long as the address on the card is not Texas, but I can't stamp a drawing in Texas.

On the other hand the laws proscribing someone calling themselve and engineer are rarely enforced. I think that they are mostly on the books to provide probable cause for an action at law to prosecute someone who has harmed the public through an unlicensed activity.

David

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Perhaps some states don't enforce the laws about practicing without a license, etc. - South Carolina does. Here are the recent discipilinary actions - against both companies and individuals, by name

http://www.llr.state.sc.us/POL/Engineers/Final Orders.htm

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[EddyC]

Ussuri,

You do not need to be licensed to work as an engineer in the USA. You need a license only for certain particular engineering jobs within the engineering profession. Only 20% of the engineers in the USA are PEs. Of those 20%, many have the license as a credential and not as a legal requirement (me for example).

 

[zdas04]

SlideRuleEra,
Every state I've looked at has a list of disciplinary actions on their web page. Generally there are dozens of new actions each month. I contend that there are thousands of violations each month (for example in Texas an engineer working under the industrial exemption is in violation if he has the word "engineer" on his business card or letterhead). The boards I'm familiar with are way understaffed to be "Business Card Police".

David

 

[SlideRuleEra]

zdas04 - Thanks for the clarification, I misunderstood your first posting & agree about the state boards being understaffed for enforcement. I attended a briefing by a SC board member this spring. He stated that they are having to prioritize investigations. Interestingly enough he said that they target out-of-state engineers, who sometimes believe that they can practice in the state yet not have the appropriate paperwork in place.

However, in the past the board has done a certain amount in in-state checking. In 2001, I was randomly selected for an audit of required PDH "credits". Mailed in written proof of participation in various qualifying activites, and a month or so later received an "all-clear" letter.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

 

[TDAA]

SRE, do take PDH’s for the education you provide here? J/K =)

When it comes to the name calling, I have probably broken the rules a bit. When I moved across the country, and started working in a new state (CO), I continued to include P.E. behind my name. This gets to be a fine line according to the state law, but as I saw it, I am a registered P.E., and I was not the final signature on my work until my paperwork was approved .

In my opinion, I believe it was a title I had earned, and there was no reason not to be referred to as such. It is not as though I was passing myself off as a licensed person in this state, nor was I providing service that was not reviewed and stamped by someone licensed in this state.

When I go back home (third state) and someone asks me what I do, I don’t tell them that I just do calculations, draw lines, and write reports; I tell them I am a P.E.

 

[zdas04]

IDAA,
In Colorado you could have the initials PE on a business card as long as you don't have an Colorado address on the card. I have a friend in Denver with a Texas PE that he never tried to transfer. A few years ago he handed his card to a guy in COGCC (government agency) and the guy looked him up. I never heard the exact penalty, but he bought new cards without the PE reference.

David

 

[rholder98]

Along those lines, however, there are several instances in Texas where a company got tagged for listing "John Doe, P.E." as a staff member, when Mr. Doe was not licensed in Texas. Everything else was legitimate, but he was not a P.E. in TX, where the company was offering services.

Back to the original topic, typically you only have to take the 8 hr. exam once. The Principles and Practice Exam (PE Exam) is administered by ELSES/NCEES, and is uniform across the country. Some states have specific exams (California, for example) that you have to take in addition to the P&P. Some states require both structural exams to be an S.E. So, including the FE (Fundamentals of Engineering), you would have to take anywhere from 16 hours to ~36 hours of exams, max. Certainly not 400.

 

[GregLocock]

"he said that they target out-of-state engineers"

So, they'd rather target out-of-state PEs calling themselves engineers, than in-state non-engineers calling themselves engineers?

Hmmmmmm.


(OK I'm exaggerating to make a point).


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[JStephen]

On the enforcement issues, keep in mind that they mainly respond to complaints- they don't go out, pull people over, and check their PE license.

 

[bhabte]

I got a question to you guys, with engineering degree from South Africa, I have found it hard to get a job here in the US. Is there any one out there that would advise me as to how I should go about getting a good electrical job? I am now currently studying to take the EIT exam, while working an entry level job in the state of Illinois information agency. The South African degree is IEEE accredited.
Thanks

 

[JAE]

I would think that if you got the EIT status then the job search would be much easier. I don't hire anyone for an engineering staff position unless they have passed the Fundamentals Exam (EIT Exam).

 

[Ussuri]

JAE

Out of curiosity I had a look at the NCEES website to see what you covered in terms of the FE and PE exams.

The FE exam covers my entire four year degree programme, and you are examined on the all of that material in just eight hours, thats a lot of stuff. I'm impressed. In the UK we get examined on it at University, but once you graduate thats it finished.

I also noted they are all multiple choice, why do you not need to submit the working and calculations?

Whats the overall pass mark for FE and PE exams?

 

[Ashereng]

Multiple choice is marked by a machine. Submitted work/calcs is marked by hand.

I am guessing it is cheaper and faster?



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[davidbeach]

Machine scoring is faster, cheaper, and more consistent. A well designed multiple choice problem will include the "right" answer for some of the more common calculation errors, so just because your calculation produces one of the choices doesn't mean that you have the right answer.

 

[henri2]

Ussuri for pass rates click this link

http://www.ncees.org/exams/pass_rates/

You will notice that most pass the FE exams and PE exam for civil but for repeat takers most do not. I suspect that repeat takers are those who have been out of school for a long while and have lost some of their test taking skills and/or they are foreign trained engineers.

For an individual who is familiar with both US and UK type exams, the FE exam is significantly easier than the AMICE exam in terms of level of difficulty of questions.

When I took the FE I noticed that the questions on the maths portion were no harder than A-level maths (some were even at the level of O-level additional maths) and the rest of the exam based mostly on the first two years of Univ course work; very rarley did I need to delve into stuff I did in my final year. The toughest part for me was the electrical, US units (had to switch to SI half-way through the morning FE exam)), and amount of time...ran out of time in the 140 question 4-hour AM section. The afternoon section saved me. One really has to be prepared to step on the gas to be succesful.

For a UK trained individual who has been out of school for a while, IMO the PE will be much less of a challenge than the FE provided the individual takes a review course that includes mock tests/exams. I have several buddies working in the US who are MICE and MIStrcutE who struggled with the FE because of the amount of time but had no problem with the PE; one is waiting for another year so he can be exempted from taking the FE in order to take the PE.