Walmart Distribution Center Fire 4

[OHIOMatt]

Link

As a structural engineer who has worked on similar structures, I have always assumed that this level of fire was a thing of the past in these types of structures. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation and if this will lead to changes in the industry. These mega warehouses are popping up at a significant pace.

 

[LittleInch]

This is what it looked like inside apparently

https://www.businessyab.com/explore...590/walmart_ecommerce_fulfillment_center.html

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[LuK13]

You can see a sprinkler line under that platform.

I'm more interested in what the in rack protection was for the shelving on the right and the ceiling level protection since the reported origin is a third level mezzanine.

 

[TugboatEng]

I think we need to take a look to our past. Boxes with lithium batteries should be labeled in a way that would catch the attention of warehouse workers. Something like S.H.I.T.

 

[stevenal]

First, sprinkler systems are designed to suppress a fire so that occupants can get out and the local fire department can respond.

Fire officials said there are no injuries as a result of the fire.

So how is this an engineering failure?

 

[FacEngrPE]

The answer isn't more stringent design codes, its more stringent enforcement of the assumptions that the design codes are based on.

Some insurance companies inspect their large customer sites, and adjust rates accordingly, some don't.
In some areas the jurisdiction can enforce a fire code, Indiana has the Rules of the Indiana Fire Prevention and Building Safety Commission A bunch of NFPA standards are explicitly invoked, including
"NFPA 25; Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water-Based Fire Protection Systems",
"NFPA 704; Standard System for the Identification of the Fire Hazards of Materials for Emergency Response"

These do not seem to be in the list of Indiana explicitly invoked NFPA standards. If any of these apply and were not considered, OSHA might take the position, that these represent the standard for due diligence to providing a safe workplace.
NFPA 230 Standard for the Fire Protection of Storage
NFPA 231 Standard for General Storage
NFPA 231C Standard for Rack Storage of Materials
NFPA 231D Standard for Storage of Rubber Tires

 

[FacEngrPE]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/walmart-fire-at-plainfield-fulfillment-center-what-we-know-about-massive-indiana-blaze/ar-AAVc7YF[/URL]]Crews from the fire department were doing training nearby when the fire broke out and were on the scene within three minutes of being notified, he said.

A 3 minute response by the fire department should have been fast enough.

 

[LCREP]

A sprinklered warehouse where sprinkler protection was not adequate resulting in a large fire? Wow never thought that could happen.OK I am awake now. Let’s see I was on the insurance side of engineering for 36 years and I always assumed the sprinkler protection in the warehouse was not adequate. Why because of the 1000’s of warehouses I visited about 50% the sprinkler protection was not adequate. Changes in occupancy since the sprinkler system was installed, ESFR sprinkler obstructions, inadequate water supply, blocked flue space and or solid shelf’s in the racks,narrow aisles, stuff stored in the aisles, idle wood and plastic pallets too high, flammable and combustible liquids in plastic containers,or totes, on and on the list goes. Not to mention lack of fire pump, sprinkler testing. Yea they burn real well.

 

[dik]

On entering these rooms, do you check the door panel to see if it is warm/hot, before entering?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

With wall panels collapsing, it may be both...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[itsmoked]

I don't see how they'll ever find a cause in that many acres of totally uniform debris that's now had millions of gallons of water sluiced around in it.

It'll require an employee who sez something like, "I heard a noise and looked over at the stack of KitchenAid cordless hand blenders and there was smoke coming out of the smashed box at the bottom of the stack."

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[dik]

They found Ms. O'leary's cow in a city the size of Chicago... and that was before all this high tech gadgetry.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[itsmoked]

Yahh...

John: your oven shenanigans remind me of a place I was helping upgrade their 450 ton press. I had all my stuff ready with my laptop wired into the PLC. I'd put it on a big sheet of cardboard so it wasn't sitting directly on the associated messy oily bench.

I asked, "Are you guys ready?" The two plant guys looked around and stated, "It's all ready, let's do this."

Turning on the 75hp hydraulic pump drive motor I promptly discovered that the idiots hadn't screwed the 2 inch hydraulic coupling together in the corner 10 feet above the bench! Something like 20 gallons of hydraulic fluid spewed forth in the 3 seconds it took them to turn the pump back off.

What a mess!! Luckily, soooOOOOo luckily, the cardboard I'd flopped on the table was so large that it went up the wall about four feet and then started to collapse back over my laptop so it was like a marginal umbrella. The oil shot forth with so much force that it projected away from the wall about 3 feet even as ricochet. As all the commotion stopped I snatched up my laptop slipped away with it as the oil dribbled and ran towards it from several directions.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[Debirlfan]

No idea on accuracy, but someone who works at another Walmart facility said on Reddit that the rumor is it started in an A/C unit.

 

[LCREP]

https://www.wthr.com/article/news/l...nter/531-2f16d5ad-580f-4ad7-84ba-f24e9371f2e5

Firefighters turned off part of sprinkler system at Plainfield Walmart fulfillment center

The final investigation report will definitely be an interesting read.

 

[dik]

I'm not sure why... I did a fire investigation a couple of decades back where the volunteer fire department ventilated the dwelling only to find out that the last time they filled the pumper the included a lot of sand with the filling and the pumper wouldn't work.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Having been to a cursory firefighting school, there are a few reasons firefighters may want to turn a sprinkler system off. A room on fire may have a temperature in the ceiling of over 1000 degrees F while the floor may still be under 100 degrees. Introducing water brings the heat to the floor and can kill anybody that is in the space. I can understand turning off the sprinklers if the firefighters felt the need to access the space prior to extinguishing the fire.

 

[dik]

Thanks, Tug...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[LCREP]

Tug,

Do not agree with your post as a firefighter and insurance engineer for 36 years. The sprinkler system knows where the fire is ie it activated and is putting “the wet stuff on the red stuff” as we say in the fire service. In a large warehouse with 30-40’ ceilings the FD has no idea what is going on since they can not see because of the smoke. An IR camera would be very useful in determining if the fire was out. A scan of the area would indicate if the fire was still active. This technology is a great help to the fire service we use it a lot.

If you have reviewed any full scale test videos of warehouse fires you will see the fire is controlled but not extinguished. On some warehouses with ESFR technology the fire is not only controlled but extinguished.

Take a look here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HOX_wDAB3A

The test fails if the fire involves the adjacent racks or does not work.

Things to consider at a warehouse fire big and small. As I noted above many warehouses I reviewed from an insurance point the sprinkler protection was not adequate.

Happy 1st day of spring!

 

[dik]

ESFR (Early Suppression, Fast Response) didn't know that term...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[davefitz]

The storage of a large number of lithium battteries is likely to be the focus of investigators and insurance regulators. The storage boxes today usually have a symbol that indicates if a lithium battery is inside the box ( for airline safety) - so it may now be neccesary to store such boxes in a separate compartment with an effective firewall between the remainder of the storage depot.The same issue might affect the large container ships that are now shipping most lithium powered devices from china, such as e-bikes, and very soon electric cars.

On a related issue, the difficulty of putting out a Tesla car fire suggests it is not wise to park such EV's alongside the main support columns in underground parking lots.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick